Hi, welcome to Words of This Life podcast. My name is Pablo and here we share real and impactful Christian stories from believers who love the Lord and his word. Through these testimonies, we want to showcase the virtues of the one who's called us out of darkness into his marvelous light. Virtues that are at work in everyday people, shaping their character, guiding their actions, and shining forth his life into the world. We're so happy you're here with us for this episode and let's get right into it. Hey guys, welcome back to the Words of This Life podcast. Um, today we have two very special guests. That's right. Uh, before even I introduce the guests, my name is Io and this is my co-host Pablo. Hi everyone. And we have two special guests like you said. You want to introduce them? Yeah. These two guys are very near and dear to my heart. If you know me, you probably know these guys. So, I want to introduce Ty and Josh. Hey y'all. I feel I'm in a room with special people. Um, people on this couch, people living behind the scenes here, and just uh we're privileged and happy to be here. Thanks for the invitation. Yeah, thanks for making the time. I'd just like to say I don't know if this is true. Have I did I meet these two guys before you? Besides, yeah, you have more years with that. Sorry. No, but they're your boys. Don't you say sorry. That is true. I think I met Josh like a while ago on a basketball court or something. Yeah. Uh at least college if high school. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. So Anaheim, you were in LA, right? Uh what year did you start college? 2010. 2010. Your last start college. Okay. I was in college then. Yeah, you were right. Okay. Okay. He was in his prime. Yeah, that was that was Prime Josh on the basketball court. That was Yeah, I remember. Yeah. 2010. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, you go ahead and give a little intro about yourself. Who you are, what you do. My name is Josh. Uh I live here in Austin, Texas. I have a family of I got my my wife Jessica. We have we have we have two kids, Emma and Noah. Um when we came to Austin for the first eight years here I was doing campus ministry. That's how I met IO as a freshman. Big smile brighteyed a freshman at UT. Uh and um that was that was now many years back. And now I'm I'm just running a little small business working. But um yeah, enjoying Austin, Texas, enjoying my Christian community. Amen. could just get to be with the brothers. Cool. And always I heard you have some cute poodles, golden doodles or something. Yes. Sorry, I just heard that like like a half an hour ago. Oh, you did? Yeah. Yeah, they're related to the Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's true. We uh I'm in in in family's family house here. Um how are you related? So yeah, we have a lab a gold golden labradoodle or something like that, right? And yeah, one of her one of one of her litter right here. This right here. Yeah. Yeah. Which one is it? Luna. Yeah, Luna know. That's right. It's cool. Yeah. Ty, you want to give a little intro? Who's Ty? I'm Ty. Hi, Ty. I live in Austin and uh been here since college mainly. Uh met Pablo when I was in California a little bit. That's right. He used to have this bumper sticker. It just had Jesus. Something about the, you know, the Lord's name. I'm like, "Okay, this guy's cool." Yeah, like he's rapping Jesus in SoCal. I thought that was some some poop when I first met him. And then I thought that stick right before pandemic. I feel like that was one of the relationships that made me kind of go through pandemic like like kind of like spiritually that that that time we got to spend during the co 19. And I know um yeah, so I live here in Austin. I also was uh blessed to serve in campus ministry with Josh for a few years and now I work and go to school um now um grad school and uh have a wife Jackie. We met through a Christian club that we were campus ministers of and uh we have a little son. That's right. Eight-month-old Josiah. Uh he's precious. He still needs to get better at sleeping, but that's okay, you know. But, uh, glad to be here. Yes. Glad to have you guys. Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is going to be fun. Excited to get into this. This is a very familiar space for me. Um, because there's a lot of times when I would be at a Bible study with you two and I would ask you guys a question, then we would walk through the Bible. Um, wow. Today we're going to try to answer one of the greatest questions ever. Um I think this is a question that every person deep within their heart has. Um yeah, the question of purpose. Um so that's right. Yeah. I guess we could frame it in in this verse. I'll just read a verse from Ecclesiastes 3:11. Yeah. He has made everything beautiful in its time. also he has put eternity in their heart. So I think um that verse speaks to eternity being in every human being's heart as a insatiable desire for something where whatever you call that something right and this today we're going to talk about purpose. So to some degree we all have a purpose that we have either for ourselves either maybe it's not like a grand purpose that is all-encompassing but something that's dear to our heart that we we find as our purpose in life. I think I think anybody would say that it's hard to live life without some kind of purpose, right? Um so we kind of want to speak about your experiences. Um you know there was there was a radical shift in your life about what you felt the purpose of your life was for sure. Um but maybe we want to go a little before that and want to hear what what a young Tai and what a young Josh thought was the purpose of their life. Young Josh and feel free to just tell us a little bit about your childhood and your upbringing and some Okay, we'll go far back up to when uh I was a little chubby.No. Um um yeah I you know I think boys especially like um I just uh you want to you want to accomplish something. You want to be something. You want to make a difference. You want to be the hero. You want to make a sacrifice. You want to make your life count. And from a young age like I I mean like you just I I mean I just remember identifying like with Indiana Jones and like putting on my Indiana Jones hat and having like a whip and like you know and I'm like had like a little toy and I just things like that. I mean I mean looking back I realize like oh you there's something I identified with that. Um right. Yeah. Um, but like a key part of my life when I when I think about it is uh I was in seventh grade and I love sports. I just love being at recess and getting super competitive with everybody. Um, and um, but you know, I I I took him kind of seriously and but I I my mom signed me up for the summer camp and I had never been to a summer camp and it was this it was this amazing. It's called NBC camps. It's a Christian uh program up in the Northwest. I was in Washington State at that time. Grew up in a town called Spokane. Uh I was there when Gonzaga made like their first NCAA tournament. That was when I was like grade school and we got to like watch it during school. I mean not their first tournament but in in their in their like it was like first of like 25. But so basketball was like my favorite sport. And I went to this basketball camp and these coaches which were like like amazing believers in Christ. Um they they they they were there was just something different about that. They they loved us. And one of them they he really challenged me uh just to to take to take on this thought that like you know hard work pays off. Hard work pays off. Like you know God honored hard work. And um he just was like, "You can make a goal like you determine your future what you would be." And so that summer before I went back to school, I made this goals. I'm like, "I'm going to get a college scholarship." And then I made all the sacrifices. I wrote them all down when I was going to do no soda, no no this, no that, you know, and all the I started doing all these, you know, push-ups and and form shooting and dribbling drills. How old were you? I was seventh grade. So what was it? 13. It's German seventh grader. Yeah. And like and literally from soda from and I tap in se Yeah. Yeah. No soda. And I went back we called it pop and it was when I didn't have any more of it. Uh pop in the 70s. I mean it pop soda. Soda pop. Yeah. I don't think it's an earththing as much as geography. I mean now there's social media. Everyone's there. same thing. You don't have to defend yourself. It wasn't. No, there was there go back. Um, so anyway, this it like set this course for sure and I look back and I'm just realiz it's something in my life that the Lord was there. Uh, he was, you know, I barely knew him. I had I had believed into the Lord a a little a little before that time, but I barely knew him. I didn't I definitely didn't know what he wanted from me or what he wanted to do on this earth. Um but the Lord was like there like more than just just like he is today. He was there with me uh preparing and doing doing an awesome work, you know, just his work in us. And um so I anyway, but I started to take on this identity of like, oh, I'm like, okay, I might not be the tallest, I might not be the fastest, but I can I can work make sure no one outworks me. and I just turned on my identity. And I think from like seventh grade till till college, um I I don't I think you you can for sure count on like a hand of days I missed like a workout. And I know there was a thousand straight days where I I never missed a workout. And I just I call them mama mentality. Uh uh yeah. Uh I I definitely can't claim to be magnificent mama, but like yeah, it was I I it's something I I I like latched on to and like really found my identity in like as a young kid. Um, and so like anyway that it it was awesome just I I at a young age I I felt like I had direction. Like my I remember all my friends like and I I mentioned I was like a little chubby because I I came back to school and I I looked different and my friends were like and people would just realize I had a direction and if you had to ask me exactly what my direction was like well I know I want to have a goal and I know I I'm on a track but and and people respected that I had direction. I couldn't tell you exactly what it was except I I know I want to maximize. That's kind of a mama mentality. I maximize maximize. Okay. I'm like, my mom is Japanese. I'm not going to be 66, but I want to maximize my Yeah. I'm given potential to to play basketball or do something anyway. They just Yeah. So, wow. Oh, you know, there's something about people that are driven like that and goal oriented like that that you could tell. You know, I'm just thinking when I first started meeting you a little bit. I could tell you were like headed somewhere. Oh, that's it. That's awesome. The walk fast. Yeah. Anyways, people who have like a certain goal, they like anyways, I don't know. You could just tell, you know? Yeah. And like they want to get somewhere, you know? They're not like hanging out too much. Anyway, I I I just got a little bit of that glimpse when you were speaking when I first met you. And that's that's the path a lot of people are going on. Like this uh there's a lot of self-actualization in setting a goal, maximizing your potential and feeling driven. Like that's that's what a lot of people like in the world are doing. That's true. Um but eventually we'll we'll talk about the shift and I think the shift will we'll we'll really hit on that. Um Ty, what about you? Who what what did young Tai want to be? What was the purpose of Young Ties tonight? I wanted to I mean this is a visual. This was going to be a Academy Award. This was like cool with my life. Uh growing up Houston, Texas. Um that was just I was going to be the very first which which is still today. Crazy. I can still become the first black man to win best director which is the Academy Awards. That still hasn't happened. And that was all that was Spike Lee, right? It was like it was always before me um to get to that level of fame and um the thing about like movie making I got into it early age my dad we would watch you know you have like okay okay I'm a sound like a boomer now too um DVDs okay so DVDs used to have like the disc one is like the movie and the disc two is like the bonus features so I would watch mainly the I mean I would watch the movie but like the bonus features where they had the behind the scenes get to talk to the director and actor, the producers like what inspired the movie. I would be riveted by watching those things with my dad and come old movies um blockbusters and so it just at an early age old movies like Sand Sand broka bro okay like like Bond with the wind. Yeah, you know. Wow. classics, you know, like sing a lot, you know, like real real um and I wasn't so the thing I was not into sports. My dad was like he was sport back and football and and and polish most. And so really the only thing we were born with was movies. Like that was like our thing. Wow. So we watched so much of it um growing up and I just got I saw myself not really in front of the camera but behind it cuz I love storytelling. I love even look at my own life as a story. Um, you know, parents divorce, uh, urban youth in Houston when I make it to like the big leagues, get the Oscars. Feel like that's like my my story. Like, wow, what a feat if I can get like two or three Oscars under my belt, my own production company, making content I want to make, traveling the world, making all this money. Um, that was just kind of like what I thought my story would be um, for a while. And I mean I was little making like mini movies with my mom's camera. I had like a PSP. I would make like music videos. You used to sing and dance. Yeah. Okay. I would be in front of the camera, too. That's awesome. We're not going to play that, right? We're not going to do that. Edit in. And uh and then high school I did theater was on like the director writer. So doing screenplays and script. So I just always invested in this direction. So were you a thespbian? I was a thesbian. That's what they call theater kids. Yeah. Oh, okay. Um so I did a lot there. Um and then also did this documentary in high school too. got some awards which I felt like that was the first glimpse of like oh like yes you can achieve uh the statue but you get like a lot of glory was like people oh you know I was a great film you made that was a great documentary you know oh man it's how you move me and I I started falling in love with the effect I could have on others and so that mean my passion for film want to kept growing and then came to UT uh did film undergrad and loved the program ever class. Um, and I guess it's it was a turning point obviously in my life in college. So, I guess we'll get to later. But even that, um, I had some accolades from some student films I would make and I got to finalist a student academy awards and that was like the pinnacle, you know, that was like, wow, I'm like there, you know, you're right there. Um I remember like this one time um I was premiering my student film and we're at this like movie theater in Austin but I don't know and the was something like this you know they were interviewing me after they watched my film. um like t you know what inspired you to do this? you touch a lot of people, you know this. And I felt like for the first time in my life, my aspiration, my dream, I felt like, wow, this is a lot to do with me. Like, where is God in any of this? Where is what's his dream or, you know, what's his after? So, I started kind of asking those questions once I kind of hit a little bit of a a peak going in that direction as far as a career. I'm sure we're gonna Yeah. lead into that maybe a little bit, but just a little taste of what Tai wanted back in the day. Yeah. So, I'm hearing it. I'm hearing self-actualization, success, fame, uh, seeing the fruit of your labor. That's generally like what the world says should be the purpose of your life. And you guys were running towards it. I mean, you guys are kind of speaking from I I kind of have a view like you guys were pretty successful at at pursuing this dream like Ty, not only were you like a really good theater kid, you also val torn of your class and you know all those UT awards and then you know Josh like you were you were hooping in California. That's not it's not like you were just really good in like Houston. Oh never let's relax. It's not like you're really good in like Indiana or something in the Houston. But if I asked you how many NBA players did you play while you were coming up, you could list probably like what, eight, nine, 10. Yeah. Um but um what we want to ask and kind of peek at now is this the shift because where you guys are now is not where you thought you would be. Um sure. That's right. Now with that shift, how about I read another verse? So from the same book, Ecclesiastes 1:2, vanity of vanities, it says the preacher. Vanity of vanities. All is vanity. So anyways, I'm glad you both are driven people. And you know, anyways, I think it's perfect for this episode to to to to have you guys. Um, but there's a moment, right, where where that dream like I don't know, confetti, you Anyways, I'm just thinking of people who achieve things and uh at one point there's that moment where that verse becomes real. Vanity of bandits. I don't know if you guys have heard of the we talked about the Tom Brady quote. Have you guys heard about Tom after three Super Bowls? He said they asked him like, you know, you have everything. You have Super Bowl rings, you have a great family, you know, you have money. And then he said, I know there's something else out there. I just wish I knew what it was. Right? M. So anyways, like this moment where things where the initial purpose like the first search, the first mountain that you're going for, it gets exposed to be vanity. Was there a moment for you both where where kind of that be you saw it as vanity? I that was kind of leading to that I beat you to the punch. Sorry. But it was when when I talk about like my career aspirations, I get reminded of when I was sitting in that seat with that uh producer with that film festival thinking like that like I have this film that that premiered and I'm on this streak. I'm I'm heading in that direction. But I felt like it was too much Thai glory, too much of me, too much of my name being recognized. And that put a pain in me that my life I could go the next 60 80 years. Yeah. I would have Wikipedia page IMBBB have all these accolades, all these awards on the shelf and like the Lord's name would just kind of be on the back burner and you know he's interviewing me and I'm just like you know with a room full of audience. My family's there. You know, it was one of my first film festivals I was at and it was like a real honor, but I felt so the word was empty. I'm I'm still letting Tom Berdick. It was like a It was like a a feeling of this is what my meaning of my life is. Just a statue that's going to collect dust or uh people who know my name when I walk to a public place. It just felt like this is what this all's for. Wow. While the Lord is just like that here in my life cuz I've been a believer since I was like I mean I was a baby Jesus in my you know church uh plays you know in crystal slaves like I was born in church you know I worked acting role yeah with baby Jesus. Yeah. Right. So so church was always like a thing in my life. Um, and I realized in middle school, high school, college, I'm like going for Tai's goal where I kind of like Jesus was kind of like he's there. He just wasn't the focus. My my goals were and I really it was like I was in that seat at that film festival getting interview for my film and I realized I've been putting Jesus in the back seat. He hasn't been in the director's chair. I've been um he was I've been writing my own story. Jesus is the the co rider that I kind of abandoned and I felt like I I had a turn there. I just realized um I wanted more for my life to count more, not to be remembered for uh the Oscar um but be remembered for exalting his. Amen. Amen. So good. That was a that was a turner point for me at a young 19. 19. Yeah. Wow. What a blessing that it was that young 19. Oh, yes. I had to be like Tom Brady. Yeah, that's right. Still be in your 40s and see your 40s. Yeah. That's good. That was me. Well, I still never seen one of your movies. I will one day and I I would actually like to come to your house and be that. But I was I I remember Ty and I were on a trip in another state and I don't you know Ty had told me about you know everything he was into and we walked into like this convenience store and Ky goes hey I saw your I saw your movie at that film festival the biggest flex. Oh my Ty was like I love him like just looks at me. He's like seeI was somebodyI'm just kidding. But I was like whoa. All right. I got to see one that was maybe Denzel. No, but uh yeah, you could tell you could tell that the Lord I want to I want to hear about it. Obviously there's something the Lord was moving as like the hidden act in God. I want to hear about even I was think when you were saying that I was like I wonder how that even happened. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah saying I mean similar trying to think vanity of vanities you know it's like it's these times in my life when I wasn't pursuing the Lord. I was a Christian but I wasn't seeking the kingdom. I was I didn't have a king in my life. And like I kind of like Ty said, I just I was making my decisions. And so I feel like some of the ways the Lord like graces us with his presence is like just this tug on our and we we it's like he tugs that part in us that that uh Solomon talks about that's like eternity. Yeah. You you like get that thing and it's like vanity and especially as believers like the Lord is there because like you had this I mean from you know your youth just like what about God? Yes. Oh, and like something, you know, a deposit of eternity and of of the worth of the Lord's name. And you um but I and I I'd realized that that was thankfully growing up in a Christian home, uh you know, and and to an extent around believers at certain times in my in my life, there was something like that. And the Lord had some, you know, almost like some there was, you know, some of the word in my heart for sure growing growing up in church. Um, one one time I I'm you know, so I I went on this pathway of just uh just pursuing athletics and just I would say more than just it wasn't like it was like pursuing excellence and like yeah just to maximize was what what God gave me. But it's not but but it wasn't for God. Uh-huh. I I I might have said, you know, at certain times it was for God, but it was I I wanted people to know that like I had less and I did more. Yeah. Like like you're taller than me and I beat you. You're faster and I still beat you, you know, or and I was on the same court as you. Um um just when I was taking college visits uh to to see where I was going to play basketball or go to school um there were what it's crazy cuz I wasn't doing anything with the Lord at that time yet like this one college there was this one guy on the team and a lot of guys when you go you know you go you play with the teams you meet and like some of the guys are nice some of the guys are like you know obviously some of the guys are like you're gonna with the same position and they're just whatever. And yeah, there was this one guy, he he loved the Lord and he was like, man, like we're serious about ball here and we're serious about the Lord and and it like resonated. And I'm like, man, and one of the big I just wanted to be somewhere where I could work on my game, not be distracted, and like continue to develop, but like something about the Lord like that like it shouldn't have been there, but it shot to the top of the list and I ended up I ended up going there. Mhm. That's that's just one thing. But eventually uh this one of the early senses of the bands I remember just I mean I'm I just was playing ball and it was anyway early 2000s like a lot of a lot of guys that play basketball still have long hair like headbands so I had long hair and I just remember one time walking to the locker room that's Steve Dash Adam Morrison like Adam Morrison you had Dan Dick out I mean these are names that you only Gonzaga fans would know. Um, but um, I like go in the locker room and I see myself in the mirror and I stopped and had like this double take and I realized the person in the mirror wasn't happy and didn't look like they had that much meaning and I just had like this this like quick double take and I'm like this isn't what your life should have been. M um and then yeah and that that was like another and it was like okay silence that you want you want to like put it on do not deserve okay and just keep going and anyway that just happened at a at one one little time in college and then um I think probably one of the biggest moments that I can remember and I don't know if I've ever told you this story. Is it the ice cream one? What? Yeah. Yes. Okay. It's some somebody uh in our small group said, you know, like like Josh, every time I think see you, I just think of ice cream cuz he's like we probably heard that story. Somebody signs. But I mean it to me it's it's oh I want to hear that. I want to hear this ice cream story. Okay. So this was my sophomore year and um you know I'm I'm working and I'm grinding and our team is at a point in the season where we're doing well and we beat a really good team, a team we shouldn't have beat and I as a sophomore start just started getting into the like rotation and playing playing really well and I had a great game and we beat this team and everyone was going to go out to celebrate. Um, and I'm just like I just felt like I wanted to just like kind of not bask in the gore but like just like reminisce like man I want to just like when everyone when everyone leaves just stay in the gym a while and then go to my dorm and eat some ice cream. That's what I did. Thought it was thought it was One Tree Hill. Anyway, Juan Triho her dating artist is a thing collect to taste aisle uh of an old show. And uh so I get up to I go to my dorm room. my my roommate who's on the team, he's gone and and I'm there and I take out my ice cream right out of the the freezer and as soon as I shut my door, sit down on my bed, I I don't eat any ice cream and I'm holding it and I'm just staring at I just remember the towel on my door and I felt lonely and empty and I'm and I and it just and I'm like why? There's no explanation. Why do I feel I feel lonely and empty? Obviously, I was there now and it wasn't just cuz I was alone in my dorm room. I'm like, I really have nobody. And like, am I and am am I nobody? Like, am I am I am I fooling myself? And it was just and I and my ice cream was just melting there in my lap. And I hadn't prayed in in in years. and like you know and like I'm sure I'm sure uh we there was formal prayers at different events or things I went to and you know we bow our heads but I mean like said something real to the Lord. This this one thing I heard the other day touched me. It was like when the Lord was with uh that Samaritan woman and she's speaking all formal to him like oh well our father like the Lord responds formally to her. Yeah. Yeah. She Yeah. Yeah. And then the Lord says, "Oh, well, you know," and he responds in the same tone. But then when someone says like like they get real and they're like, "Help, really." Uh or like, "Lord, you're I'm a dog. I need food." Yeah. There was a woman in the Bible that said that, right? Uh then the Lord gets on that level. And so I I I didn't know I was praying, but I'm like, "God, I want my life to count." I remember saying that. I was like, "I want my life to count." Wow. please help my life count. And that and that was it. And again, I kind of stored that away and and uh and yeah, forgot about it. But I I think for sure like that sense of like just like God touching eternity and and just of sensing vanity like something that will amount to, you know, nothing. Mhm. Wow. That's really awesome. That's heavy. Yeah, man. Ice cream. Ice, man. So good to hear these these stories. Wow. Yeah, there's this quote by Jim Carrey that I thought about before this episode. He was like, I don't I don't want to butcher it, but he says, "I just wish everyone got rich and famous so that they could realize that it's it's not what they want. It's not the thing. It's not the satisfying thing." And in both of your testimonies, you kind of you guys spoke about how that thing you really really wanted wasn't really satisfying. And um yeah, Ecclesiastes supports that, right? Um that's right. With uh in Ecclesiastes, they kind of speak about how all things are vanity under the sun, right? But with but with you guys, there was this shift where you realize that all things are vanity. This is all vanity, vanity, just chasing after the wind. But y'all were shifting and looking to God. Now you're looking above the sun. And you were looking to the Lord for purpose. Yeah, right. Um, so what was that like? Wait, first, have you guys seen that clip of Jim Carrey talking about Jesus? No. Which I've seen a couple of them. Okay. I don't know. I don't know if I I just saw a clip. I saw he once like scrolling and I'm not sure he's a You might be a believer. Yeah, but think you was saying something like you know that the sacrifice Jesus made for us on the cross like that's the only real thing. Yes. Wow. I I have the fact that I mean he's taken God's word in the story of Jesus seriously. It Yeah. Someone who said that and experienced this like to the nth degree. Yes. Yeah. That's you know to me it's interesting that God allows us to go like you know both of your stories very driven very you know desirous of getting somewhere. Yeah. And it's in that journey of finding out that that is not like just the fact that God allows and even almost by design wants us to have that pursuit and get to a point because even for Solomon to write that you know vanity of vanities he had to be pursuing something you know I mean he had it all and then and then by his mercy just realized you know it's not it you know. Yeah. But um yeah anyways I think I think I think God just put that emptiness. I like that word he used emptiness. I feel like that feeling when you were looking at your towel, you know, about to eat ice cream emptiness. I feel like that's just the story of all of us at some point, you know, we just feel that pursuit was empty. It was just chasing after win. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's so it's awesome. It's God's mercy to feel emptiness. I feel, you know. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Job felt it, you know, like so many people felt it, you know, like there's nothing here, you Yeah. Even to think about the verse is uh Ecclesiastes 3:11 is crazy. There's eternity that's in man's heart. Yeah. What kind of like there's a there's an eternity hole in us? Like is is an Oscar going to fill that? Is a an NCAA championship going to fill that? Like it's like a God-shaped hole. Like it's like the only person that can fill that is like the eternal one. That hit me. Well, I don't remember which one of y'all told me that. I think it was you. But you told me that that eternity can only be filled by the eternal one, right? Yeah. Sign as um these blocks of these shapes and you know the triangle shape. He tries to jam circle, a pillow, anything he could find his hands on to fit into the triangle shape. Um you know, tries as much as he can. Uh but really the only thing I'll fit is that triangle piece, right? And that was for me how I felt. I tried and my triangle shape was was that eternity. It's like it's a it's like a a fulfillment. That's the opposite of right empty is being filled. And I felt like that Oscar was like me trying to put another object into that triangle of space, you know. And uh so I guess you asking about the turn. Um I had definitely thankful for God that I had like a contrast. I know the contrast what empty felt like but being filled felt like. And in college, um, I was discipled by this, um, this man, uh, Trevor. His name is Trevor. And, uh, he really shephered me in college spiritually. And we had a gospel time, and we would just walk around UT campus preaching the gospel, right? And, you know, I'm a people person. I mean, I love people, right? Yeah. But the gospel, no, that's like, come on. But Brandon Santos Santo um that street we he prayed to receive Christ with us and that was the first time I felt filled and felt like oh this is the triangle piece to the triangle shape. It was completely opposite then uh my film getting premiered getting these student awards. I felt like that that was the first moment I realized, oh, this is a different taste. Like giving sharing Christ with someone else, them receiving it, seeing in their eyes, their face go from darkness to light. Like it was like that was the first time I got to share Christ with someone and and it was it was another feeling. It's like another realm. I didn't even realize. I mean, I've been a Christian for years, but I never had that experience of like touching something like that. Like God's plan is for him to be expressed, him to be seen on the earth, him to be heard, him to be glorified. And I felt like everything my film was doing was glorifying me, but in that moment, I was glorifying God. And that was like unforgettable uh sensation bringing him Christ. Yeah. Like that was the first time like okay I think I'm on the mark here. Okay. I like this feeling. This is this is super different than you know accepting some award. This was like something that made God smile. That fit. It was wonderful. Yeah. Wow. It seems like when we're pursuing these things on the earth, our eyes are on the earth, right? They're like looking down. They're looking at most like, you know, eye level. But then at some point, God has mercy on us and and we look upwards, right? We we look at there's a creator that and then when you when you see the creator, like if you if you just a thought that there is a creator, everything changes, right? Then you realize, okay, there's there's another there's a bigger purpose. So there's a bigger will, there's a bigger Yeah. you know intention here that on the earth and I think that moment is um yeah I don't know how that moment comes sometimes comes through someone else comes through the Bible you know uh but some some it comes and it came to all of us here sitting here you know thank you God thanks to God right that our eyes looked upward and we realize there's someone with a bigger plan with a bigger purpose and you maybe might not know at that moment what that purpose is but at least you know there is a bigger purpose right so even You know, like you said, when you recognize that there's a creator, that should shift things. It even like makes it absurd that like us, the creation, are trying to decide a purpose for ourselves instead of looking at the creator and asking what do you want to do? You know, like that was a frame shift for me that was like, wow, that makes a lot of sense. And even the the even 3:11 that eternity sits in our heart that our creator created us with this uh space that he's supposed to fill in us. Like this is so this is different. You know what I mean? It's different than the way I thought my life would go and what my life was about and what things should be about. Um, so yeah, like it's it's not just like what is what is going to be the purpose of my life, but now it's what is God's purpose? Yeah. You know, and I'm curious to know what they thought God's purpose was initi what was your first thought like when you realized, you know, there's something bigger than basketball, there's something bigger than getting a an Oscar. What were did you search for? What was your first thought that what what does God want from me then? I probably I think I just want knew he wanted me to stop living for myself, which is kind of what God I was I would always uh ignore ignore him. So, uh maybe, you know, stop stop sinning. Uh just be in church. Probably something along that lines. I I I kind of always had this thought that is just really not right, but it's just I think it's a religious thought. just we're like really religious. I thought God doesn't want me to have like but I you know like this thing that I wanted all my life or something like that. That's good. Yeah. I'm like yeah um that was anyway. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's really helpful. I that's good. I had something along the same lines like just God doesn't want me to sin and he wants me to kind of live this restricted holy pure life. And that doesn't sound pleasant, you know, like it may anyway, but I know Tai, yours is a little interesting. You had a Christian background. Uh, yeah, to say the least. Interesting. Oh, your uncles are pastors, right? Pastor. Oh my minutes. So that's why I was baby Jesus. So I put this um God's purpose. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, my uncle's examples, it was to Yeah. Don't sin, raise your family as Christians, go to church, read the Bible. I mean, that was that's it. I mean, and uh that's it. That's growing up. That's really what I thought was God's purpose for me. That was the God's direction that point what I thought. So, what he wanted. And how long did that last like that you know not sinning leaving what you want leaving basketball and then you know I feel like sometimes you're in that for a while you know before you find what actually it is you know I don't know you know like Saul was think thought think thinking he was serving God in a wrong you know he thought his the purpose for his life was something and then then something happened right and he realized well I'm wrong you know so I think a lot of times you know we we could also have a mis you know mistaken concept of what God's purpose is and we're just there but God, you know, we're there for a while and God leaves us there for a while and then with his mercy just brings us up a little higher. So, anyways, yeah, I mean these guys, these two guys are how God's purpose was unveiled to me. Wow. that it was somebody sitting down with me, reading the Bible, taking me through from Genesis to Revelation, not only just in and through the scripture, but like their life was like the expression of God's purpose being fulfilled. That's what I felt like I got when I was with you guys. And I know this is a special episode seeing you. This is a good I know there's people like that in your lives because you mention them all the time. But what was that experience like where our old your old Christian concept was now being uplifted and traded with um the unveiling of God's heart. Yeah. Uh anyway, I think Pablo asked earlier like what uh how did that the shift go from like what you initially thought and I was like as soon as I got some light I don't know how you I could just conjure up like I mean who could it's so simple and amazing like just the words in the Bible but who could it's like beyond what we could ever conjure or imagine. Yeah. Uh and so yeah when when I started light came when I started reading the Bible. Wow. And I needed I needed help. Like most believers when you're when you're brand new, you're like, "Which uh what's the New Testament? What's the Old Testament?" But yeah, where to start, where to read, you know, who just start to actually read it and then understand. And then the other thing is I think maybe the bigger light was I saw people and I I I had I didn't have these words back then, but like they were living for they saw a purpose and like their their life was just a light. Wow. And it was like and that resonated more than anything. Even even other guys in college and and when you give an example of someone preaching the gospel like my I remember this guy Travis from Laguna Beach. Oh yeah. Yeah. And he was in college and I was in college and we met up and then he was talking to some stranger for a while. We were hanging out somewhere and I'm like how'd you know that guy? And he goes I didn't. I was like, "We're talking to him for a while." And he goes, "Yeah, I mean, I was I'm sharing with him something from the Bible." And you can do that. What did he did? Was he mean? And he's like, "No, we had a great conversation." And I'm like, I felt like as a Christian put to shame. I'm like, "Oh, yeah." Like, there have been people who've done that. Yeah. But I I don't know if I'd ever seen it. And someone just like you said, what' you say? You touched like a the being filled for sure. And I was like, man, there was just something I'm like, I've been missing. There's another level up that I've been missing in my Christian life. And that was one of them. But just it start you started seeing believers who are, you know, living for Christ, living to Christ. And that's a light. Wow. That was that was a light to me. And then I'm like, okay, it's not just I need to try and be good and like give up everything that I love for Jesus. Yeah. And thank God it's not that. It's so much better. Yeah. Amen. Yeah, he's describ Yes. You had like two things. Uh the light from the Bible. That's something I to me I'm like there's no way I could have seen God's purpose for himself without the Bible, right? Um that's what we were able to share with you later on. Um because someone did the same for us. You know, it's like it's like you're the Ethiopian unic. Yeah. With Philip, you're like, you know what you're reading? like, "Yeah, no. I thought I did." You know, we have all these, you know, like veils almost like we think we know the word. Oh, I grew up in church. I know what God wants. You know, that's how I came to college. That's pretty good. And then I sat with these older uh staff members for our club uh Christian club. And I I remember in my seat just walking back to class like a different person because I just felt like wow what I knew about the Bible before this this one hour two hour session then afterwards like night and day you know and it all was predicated on God's purpose like what does he actually want for himself as I started really looking at the whole Bible like that. Um, wow. I mean, Old Testament stories, you're like the, you know, to me, Noah's arc was just about the animals, you know, growing up, Sunday school, that was just awesome story, you know, but that has something to do with God's purpose, too, you know, just like unveiling after unveiling, you know, just seeing more, seeing more. So the word for sure um that have having that open up to me really started to like chime away all those different concepts I had about what I wanted for me what what my life was for what what I thought he wanted. Um and then with Josh's hidden too is you see the people living out that purpose to me that was just like that drove it home for me. Um I remember it was two I'm g mention again I'm name dropping Trevor a lot u he was early instrumental in my life uh Trevor Walker and him and uh David they they were leading this Bible study in the title of the Bible study I mean it was just like so fitting God's purpose for himself right um and in my life you know I read the book I mean it's on my grandpa's shelf purpose driven life you know it walks through what the life of a Christian should be, you know, but a lot of that has the arrow pointed at us. And that's what kind of concept I had. I never saw a title of an outline, a book, I don't know, a blog of God's purpose for himself. It was even that title for that Bible study really like it was jarring. And uh so Trevor and David, they were spitting, they were they were like on fire speaking about this and about different experiences they had when they woke up and realized what God's purpose was. And I'm like, "Okay, these youth pastors are on it, you know, like, wow, man." Like, they're spitting in. And I meet them after Bible study this year cuz, you know, I'm just like drawn to the light in them, you know, and they're like, "Oh, no. I'm I'm a senior EUT. I'm grad student." Yeah. And I'm just I was just like these young guys. I mean, I've only seen my uncles kind of, you know, speak the word like that with so much power and and spiriting out. And uh to have like these young bros not so much older than me be so clear about what God wants and how they're aligning theirelves with this purpose and how it's lived out in them. It just like made everything so for sure. I was makes it real. I want what would they're having, you know? Yeah, for real. Give me some of that. And that definitely was a turning point and you felt like Yeah. I used to idolize Spike Lee, but now I just I want to I want to be like these bros right here. Yeah. Awesome. Feel like in both of your stories, it's like like you said, Josh, there's nothing you can conjure up. There's nothing out of yourself. Like there's no way you can find out what God wants to do in in yourself, you know, or or even reading the Bible by yourself. In both of your stories, there's people involved who told you something. And to me, that's something about God's like purpose that it has to be revealed. It can't be like it's not logic. It's not just trying hard reading the B. It has to be some divine revelation. You know, one time I was, you know, we're talking about, we were going to mention some verses in Job, right? One time I was in uh this was in a pandemic. I'm I'm in my apartment in Boston alone. I'm living alone at the time. And um I'm going through this Bible study on on Zoom on Job with a and it's on Job and and afterwards I I closed my laptop and I was just I just remember like that was some revelation because at that moment I was so impressed that God for millennia had never wavered from what he wanted. Like to me that was just like he's you know we've fallen so many times. Humanity has failed so many times and again and again. But God has never wavered in what he really wants with man. You know, to me that but that wasn't like that wasn't anything like I you know deduced or you know like it was just it was just something divine. None of us are here because of anything we are you know we're just here because God at some point said okay that heart that heart I want to reveal something I did. This is this is this is what I want to do. you know. Mhm. So, to me, it's um I don't know. I wanted a question out of this. Yeah. I wanted to ask you all I I can't. But anyways, chat, turn this into a question. Hey, Chad. Yeah. Change this into a question. But has there Yeah, maybe you can get into a specific moment of revelation that you had. I guess that last that Bible say that you had. But, um to me it, you know, for the listeners, it's not something that you can go, you know, be be upset like I don't know my the purp God's purpose. It's like I, you know, it's just something that we need to pray to to God, you know, and we need to turn our hearts and and there's something that the Lord sees and he's like, "Okay, to that heart, I want to reveal something, you know." Um, and it's not hidden, you know, it's not like it it's out there, you know, God wants people to know. But anyways, make it into a question, bro. Okay. Um, one of the one of the passages that that was like light to me where I feel like the Lord was unveiling his heart to me was Ephesians 3:8-12. And it starts with to me less than the least of all these saints was grace given to announce the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ as the gospel. This is the gospel. Then it then then Paul says, "And then to enlighten all that they may see. The economy plan dispensation of the mystery." So there was a little more there. And there's two things that hit me. Enlighten. So that that's that revelation. That's that light coming in. But then there's this mystery. Um and if we go through the the that passage, we probably can read it. There's some heavy words there. There's eternal purpose. Uh this purpose that's was within God that's being revealed in the church that's from the ages that he's now making known. Um I don't know if I I if I can just grab you the baton, but what I pass you the baton, but like what were some of those passages? What were the some of that truth that was the unveiling of or the enlightening of this mystery of God's purpose? It's good. Hopefully, you can enlighten the audience. Yeah. Was that a good question, Pablo? That's a great question. All right. All right. Ton pass. Yeah, for sure. came from the word. Um, yeah, that I mean, the Bible is all God's word. You can you can glean this from anywhere in the Bible, but I feel like Ephesians is such a good I'm just thinking back like what were some of the key verses and then just reading the Gospels, but then there's so many verses on Ephesians about eternal his eternal purpose um and plan. Um, let me just say this. If like my real purpose and like like my real purpose like I was made to like the goal of my life, the reason I was made was to make like a game-winning three-pointer. And I knew that my whole life, but I never did it. I'd be like, I know what I'm supposed to do. But then once you do it, it's completely different. Like if if I if I was a a wire and the and the meaning of my life was to conduct electricity and I knew that. But then like once you if if I if if I my purpose was to be shocked by electricity once you do it you're like whoa that was it's real man that was amazing. Um so um I'd say for me like I was really slow even going to like a Christian school and stuff getting all the Bible verses I was slower than a lot of people but I remember I felt like I was touching and it was it was we were touching Jesus. Jesus was there and I was like just like you let touch an electrical wire and I was being filled when I was getting into the word for the first time. Mine wasn't with like other calls. The first time I remember is with an older Christian brother but he was filled with Christ and he loved the word and he just when he spoke to me about the Bible it was it conveyed something to me and it was it was just so impactful and so just even just a yes this is one of the first verses I remember. John 10:10, Christ has come that you may have life. Amen. And have it abundantly, Josh. It's not just a little. And I just started to realize there's something subjective in my life that God wants to be to me. He does. And not just objective, but this purpose has something very subjective to do. Wow. With uh in God's plan with with who he is and what he wants to be to me. And I and and it's experiential. Um and a lot then slowly a lot of the verses came together and uh especially with Ephesians it's just like when they talk about the dispensation or the economy like you realize like God wants is to have somebody this hidden God who nobody people can mock and say isn't real. He wants to have an entity that says nope I'm real. Wow. I'm real. Yeah. And it's it's his church. It's his people that are and and it's not just re I was a regenerated person all those years but I wasn't doing that. I wasn't purposing I was I wasn't you know living purposefully in God's purpose. I wasn't part of that expression. So um yeah and I think that that it'll help. Wow that's amazing. John 10:10 I didn't know that was the verse that you know that kind of the Lord used to reveal that to you. To me, it's amazing that any verse in the Bible, the gospels, the epistles, the Old Testament, God can use to reveal that that same purp like from another angle, you know, like I have come that you may have life and have it abundantly. Like those words can reveal God's purpose to you, you know, like to me that's amazing, you know, it's and through spoken through a brother. You mentioned someone was expounding the word to you, but like it's everywhere. God wants us to know his purpose. like just read the Bible, you know, and fellowship with someone else and you might just get some light. Like I think there has to be an opening heart, you know, a desire to to drop something, you know, to to realize you were wrong and then to just be a little hungry. But it's amazing that the Bible can do that, you know. Yeah. Incredible. There is one verse in the Bible that did that to me. Wow. Uh I remember where I was sitting in college in the student activity center. just name something else now. UT renames buildings. Um the seat I was in by Chick-fil-A. These two brothers uh blew my mind with Isaiah 54:5. If anyone ever I don't know if you grew up reading the Bible. I didn't know that verse is in the Bible. I knew Isaiah was in the Bible. I knew that reverse in the Bible. And it reads, "Your maker is your husband." Amen. Um that was to me the game changer for Christian my Christian life. Um because to me I mean I would replace my maker is my king right my father that's how I would view God my ruler right my life I would say that too right I never attribute God to a romantic and you know you know I love I love stories I'm a storyteller and birth so God is also a storyteller he's a romantic The Bible is a romance story. So I was I was getting into this kind of truth uh very early early on in college and uh it revolutionized me to look at God's purpose for himself. Right? That's the underlying which Isaac, right? Talk about like he's after a counterpart. He's after someone to spend eternity with talk about eternal purpose in Ephesians, right? He's trying he he's trying to gain that from beginning to end. Story after story in the Bible, his brothers are showing me week after week in college, I had more of this truth. Like it's like an onion. There's more. Noah's arc that's related. Adam and Eve, that's related to this to this, you know, divine romance. It's just like, wow. Okay. I don't know if you remember this. Apollo, me and Pablo Oh, yeah. had a Bible study in Boston. I was there for a little bit, too. I've been around a little bit. Um, broke some hearts when you left. I mean, like brothers and No, no, sorry. Sorry. Okay, let me let me for the record. There was a lot of brothers on the, you know, in in our community and on the club that really wanted Tai to stay back and Amen. The Lord brought it back to Austin. Hallelujah. But he did. I'm still scared till today. Can't leave. He can't leave. But our time in Boston was so blessed and sweet. We got to do some ministry there and there was a student Yeah. Right. who we shared this truth with on you know the Bible is this romance between God and man God's whole purpose is to gain this counterpart right to gain this lover yeah for himself and we shared this with this student and what po you remember what he did remember what he did he we were in this cafeteria and Tai is going off and we're both sharing a little bit and I think when we brought up Isaiah the vers that you mentioned my maker is my husband he got up and he did a full loop around the around the cafeteria like and we saw him like he just he was kind he got up like this and then he went around a few tables and came back to his seat, sat down and he was like what? Like he just said that and he was like how come I I've never seen this before. And anyways, that was a a constant breaker for him. And after it changed his life. Yeah, it pops out of the master school we were doing ministry with and he goes to Bible school. goes to Bible school like the next week, you know, he's like giving himself full. We were like, bro, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Finish school. But anyways, he's doing great now. That just shows you the the impact of of what the truth the word can do, especially on the line of God's purpose. Yeah. It can it can revolutionize somebody and we see that in our lives, but we can see it in someone else, too. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. Like in the beginning we talked that's like when you touch transcendent truth. Like that's so much bigger than my little drain. It's like when you're on Everest and you're looking down at the little tiny hut you started, right? Yeah. Transcendent truth. That experience that you guys spoke about, it reminds me of an experience I had with you Josh. Our very first Bible study. You genre rev me. Oh, what genre? It was very and genre rev. We went through the um so you know I'm here I am college freshman pretty okay pretty okay student and I'm like I met this guy he's doing ministry and he said let's have a Bible study I think he's interesting he also plays basketball so I'm like okay cool what are we going to talk about and he's like oh let's go to Genesis I'm like Genesis bro come on we all know this and then he asked he asked me about Genesis Genesis is uh 126. Um and he's like, "What does image and dominion mean?" And you've been using this for a long time. Use this. You tell the story often. And I was like, "Yeah, uh image is like, you know, we we're made in the image of God." Um but like dominion is like when you tell a cat to like, you know, scurry away. They scurry away and you just you just laughed at me. He just he just laughed at me. But then he was like he just kept expounding like we're made in the image of God. Like a glove is in in the image of a hand. And the like you said like a wire's purpose is conduct electricity. Like our purpose as a glove is to be filled with God. And I was like I was like what are you I've never heard this but it makes sense. Like it's the weirdest thing. And he's like, "Yeah, that's what the tree was for is this that would have been the infilling. Um that would been the the addition of God's life into you. You already have his image. Um and you're made in his likeness, but this would been the the life." So when we go to John 10:10, it's Christ says, "I came that they may have life and life abundantly." And you know that he breathed the spirit into the the disciples. It's like this. It's like God became a man, went through this process, and he wants to get in you. That's like the It's the glove coming. That's the hand going into the glove. Yeah. And then in the realm of romance, like God needs to indwell you and fill you so that you match him in this way in life. like a a h like a human wouldn't have a love relationship with with an animal. Yeah. He needs another human, right? And God put Adam through that exercise. Said, "Name all the animals. Go ahead." And didn't find a match. But then here's Eve, who's the bone of his bone, the flesh of his flesh. And we know all the typology, but that that's that that's the first couple. And it's a picture of God's relationship with man. That was our first appointment. Really? He remembers the Hey, that changed my life. That changed my life. I was like, what? I thought I was going to come to UT. I was going to make my parents proud. I was going to get a degree. I was going to have a career. But here I am. This guy who this this guy I met a week ago is telling me you are a vessel be to made to be filled with God and in a loving relationship. It's like whoa change my I didn't run around the you know I didn't run around but but you you know what I call that bro you got wrecked. Yeah Josh wrecked you but to the Lord wrecked you but you know always comes through someone but doesn't the Lord do that to us? He wrecks us in a way, right? We're no longer good for the world in a sense. Straight up. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, after you see that, you're like, "Okay, I wanted to do XYZ." I mean, everything seems silly. Transm amazing. That's all in like the first two chapters of the Bible. You could camp do when I was doing ministry would just camp out in those chapters for so so long. Never. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. does it. Um, so UT they had this like Oscorner producer come to speak do like a little spee speaking and he got all of us film students could could hold the Oscar, you know, take a picture with it and you know put on the gram or something. So I did that, right? That was my screen saver for most college. And then you know what I replaced it with? You know what I replaced? My screen saver holding an Academy Award from Versa. Oh. Uh, not not that layer. Okay. It was uh Isaiah 54:5. Oh, wow. Oh, it was really that verse became like, bro, you're a romantic, my brother. Oh, easy. Yeah, that's right. I have some stories about Tai. And anyway, but yeah, everyone got stories. But yeah, that just Yeah. Wow. That became like I want to open my laptop to see that that Yeah. Yeah. Like that's what that's amazing. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And this isn't like a student point, but Yeah. Like it's just you see that the Bible connects and that there's one lucid story and God is the author and you have not a tiny role, not a minor role, but you have a major role. Yeah. And all human beings are are innumerably valuable precious because of this purpose. Yeah. But I mean there's just so much to say. Yeah. Um it that puts everything into perspective that and you have to Amen. again and again and again. You get away from it, you lose perspective. Yeah. And you can get away from it sometimes, right? Sometimes we just we saw it, but then we like get away from it for sure. You got to see it again and you get the perspective and get that vision again. Mhm. It happens. Yeah. You want to take it somewhere? I like how you said wrecked. Yeah, bro. There's just a shift that happens. I remember when I had that appointment, there was this and this is so bad. I like I I just loved those like one-on-one Bible studies that we had uh we would have. So I just like there's this one psychology class. It was online. I was like I'll just let it play on the side and I will just keep talking about the Bible because the direction of my life was changing because I'm I want to live according to God's purpose. I want to live in that towards that. Enjoy that. Wow. That happened to y'all. What? And what did that look like? Where did it lead you? Oh, go ahead. What were you going to say? That's really good. So, I just want to make a point. I'm glad these bros are here with that because, you know, you're saying you're at that appointment. Your your psychology class is playing on the side and you're like, my life is changing. Everyone listening is going to be, I got to drop out of school. Don't do that. Please don't do that. Right. But there's a way. He graduated, guys. He has a degree and he's working. He's a consultant. But there's a way where you can still be in the purpose but living a normal human life. I'm glad that you bros were involved in campus ministry but now you know f you know have families of jobs you're doing well and you're still in that purpose that you saw. So how does that look in a norm normal father working man life to just to be in the in the reality of of what you saw you know to not let that purpose go like you're saying you know you might not be a minute you know be on campus as much anymore with students but you're still in that yeah how's it look are you looking at me because you want me to go first of course okay then you get to think of really good stuff this okay that's no um So,starts around 5:00 a.m. I wake up with my 2-year-old and four-year-old as we're doing push-ups, memorizing scripture. Mhm. Wow. Still trying to go to the NBA, huh? The goal. I say, "Repeat after me." Bro, it was the funniest thing. He He brought his He had a picture with his son with a basketball and he's like, "I didn't put it in his hands." I'm like, "Sure, Josh, you didn't put it in his hands, but go ahead." I I didn't put a ball in my hands. No,no, no. He He put the hoop out. He likes it dunk. Okay. We've talked about that another time. I was shooting for him. Um Well, like when we were say you get in and you get it and like this is like the the truth the thing about it. It's profound and it's like who could have ever thought about that? But it's it's not uh what's a hard class? Calculus. It's not rocket science. It's it God is it's so profound and you when you see it's a hand in a glove. Yeah. And anything else is vanity. To put anything else in a glove is vanity. Um so it starts there and then that that is a purpose. Then you know what the what what the hand is doing in you. It's actually you know there's a purpose. He's God is building something. He's you know he's after something. He's after people. He's after hearts. He's he wants to gain ground. He wants to shut down uh dark enterprises. Then he wants to release his enterprise of light, the kingdom of you know, right? Um I'll Yeah. Um I see I'm going first, but I I is practical today is um was up super late with the kids. Kids have been sick, sleeping on the floor next to one of them. So, I didn't like have time to read my Bible this morning, but I got I I did wake up and I'm I'm like, "Lord, I need you. I need coffee. I had to go to had to go to work early to to to make it here in time for the and and uh I commit I committed to a a phone call, prayer time with with another brother and I forgot about and he texted me. He's like, "Does 12:30 work?" And I'm like, and I replied, "Yes." And so I just took my took my lunch and I was in my car and it was so we we talked we caught up but then we prayed and I'm like anyway he was like dude is there anything on your heart? I'm like actually yeah can we just pray? I'm going to be doing this podcast with some brothers tonight and like my life has been so busy. I was like, you know, that parable of the soil. I was like, I feel like, can we just pray in I feel like, you know, there's u there's those thorns that that are choking the seed. And I was like, you know, the anxieties of this age. I was like, I feel like I'm dealing with those. I was like, and you know, then there's those rocks in the soil, the deceitfulness of riches. And he's like, oh yeah, what does that mean? I'm like, well, I'm not sure, but I mean, at least for me, like it I feel like it's just selling you this dream and like you're almost there. you have to go a little further and make a little, you know, and and and this this by this bogus lie that security comes through something you can do with your hands to make money. And Mhm. Um that being said, I'm like, can we just open to the Lord Jesus and pray? And we and and we and we just get to just pray together, pray together over the phone like he prayed and I prayed and man, it was um I feel like the the hand got in the glove a little more. Amen. And um I mean that's that was like from today that was a little practical. But the the Christian life is I feel like our regenerated life is Christ lives in you but you ignore him like what I was doing all those years. But the Christian life is you let the hand in. You let the hand in the glove and and and then you see what the hand is going to do. Wow. Amen. Amen. As simple as prayers. Yeah. That's it's great. Sure. Take it from uh a wise marriage. You had some time. Hobie. Yeah. Life is hard. Marriage is hard. Kids are hard. We're allowing that eight months in. Um and even tonight, I'm like reminded the Lord, he still has this eternal purpose. And um even with this is the busiest I had ever been in my whole life being in school, working and a baby. Um I found myself coming back to Pablo's bumper sticker. Uh had Jesus his name. Um I felt like I knew what calling on the Lord was in college. I heard that kind of like that's a way to touch uh the Lord in a real way, you know, just saying Jesus, calling his name, calling it out, you know, sincerely. Um, but now I feel like I know what calling is when 4:00 a.m. woken up by a teething eight-month-old and, you know, I got to work later. I got to study for these counseling exams. us from the squad war and I'm realizing okay the Lord's name that is not shaming. It still brings some supply. It still brings me back to his purpose, the romance. It still rekindles my heart. So I feel like I'm getting a little bit more reduced to just that fiveletter name a little bit more. Jesus while um when uh when life is getting rough and it's a season, you know, college was a season, serving campus ministry was a season for like this is a season. But I feel like uh in a real way uh even just calling has made it a lot more real. That's just where I'm at. just get to his name. Well, as I'm trying to put my boy to sleep or uh dead tired, gotta go to work, gotta study, I feel like that's just where I'm at. It's just making that name just the tip of my tongue. Um when I'm washing the dishes, changing the diaper, put him to sleep, um on the walk with him. And I just feel like that name became so much more mobile and realistic to me and uh it brings me back to like like we almost have to remind ourselves like wait what are we on earth for again? Wow. Even with a child with studying like wait I this was revealed to me when I was 19 but like this is a different different time now you know. So I feel like we have to you're not on the mission field. That's right. So you're right. We have soldiers together. You shared the line. My soldier and you know we realize yeah it's different than even when we're serving uh the wow and you're speaking about this truth a lie speak with God's purpose seeing people you know walk around the room. So it's a lot more calm down now and then this kind of era. Um but I feel like the Lord is still still there. Amen. Yeah. Unrelented. He still wants it's like an eternal like he's unwavering. So even our different my this stage in life he's does remind me Todd I still want to fall madly in love with you more today. Yeah. I'm still your maker. Yeah. The husband. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Want to add anything else? Josh, you had a little time to think now. Yeah. Thanks for that. But I was just listening every time I wasn't sure. Um um I don't know just how you I I when as you're speaking I I like totally I'm like relating to that like you're man my thing my thing that like like filled me with Christ the most was like speaking about Christ and like I can't do that to my like 2-year-old then I met at work uh it's it's just not the arrangement and um and so like like you said and you're like well and you kind of and but I will say something that just that the Lord has uh conversations just being real with the Lord in the car and um well uh just the Lord reminded me every stage of life like if if we don't purposely deliberately give ourselves and the things and because as life there's always new things we're getting new things and things old things we're losing and as life changes and so like and just those those things need to be handed over, you know, just as and and just uh yeah, just through through through prayer with the Lord, but like just so anyway, the Lord had or has ground and permission in our life still because our life changes. Yeah. I can't I can't keep I can't keep trying to, you know, have the same experience of Christ I had that were, you know, from years ago. I'm just not playing that sport anymore. But I'm still But it's a lie that we're not in God's purpose. God's purpose, like you said, never stops. So, yeah. And so, we need to be in it. We need to ask the Lord for the privilege and the mercy to to Yeah. Yeah. And go ahead. I was I I'm going to be honest, like when you guys were um on the campus and y'all were meeting with me, I was so inspired by how you guys lived then cuz you were you gave your whole time to God's purpose. If it was going across the country, you said yes. If it was going to another, if it was going to another continent, you said yes. If it was 5 years, you said yes. If it was nearly a decade, you said yes. And I was like, man, these guys, they just are living for God's purpose. But then, honestly, like, I mean, I Ty, I saw you get married. I I I watched you have a kid. I I saw I watched you have two kids. I watched you guys go from min ministry to uh school to a job to small business. uh being a small business owner and it's I'm still like I'm like I'm still impressed that you guys are still living according to God's purpose, right? Even though it looks totally different, you know, it's still the same thing. Like you said, it you it's forever just living for God's purpose. If you're a dad, if you're just a regular person, it's just like you don't have to it's not it just doesn't stop with the with the service, but it's every day. Like if I call Josh and I'm like, "Hey, me and my wife, we kind of need somebody to talk to." As busy as your schedule is, you find time. And it just shows like despite everything, you still have a heart for God's purpose. Yeah. And um I I like that. That's that message is getting out. That's right. That nohere no matter what your occupation is, where you are, what you're doing, um That's right. God's purpose is still God's purpose. Let's live for it. That's right. You know, people say sometimes once you see something, you can't unsee it. You know, like you've been to the Grand Canyon. Have you you've seen the Grand Canyon, you'll never forget that vision. You know, you'll just it'll forever be in your in your in your in your brain, in your head. I feel like similar with God's purpose, you know, once you have that, you know, mercy from God to to see something in the word. Life will change. You know, you'll have one kid, two kids, and small business, you know, but it'll never not be real to you. Like and I just love how like simple it is for you guys like praying with a brother what you said and then you said calling on the Lord as you cuz you could do those two things not seeing it you know you could you could pray and you could call but to you it's not clear what God is doing and and but once you see what God is doing those simple you know practices that take like two minutes take a whole another different weight and meaning because you realize God is the the hand that's filling the glove and you just realize in these two minutes praying with a brother and these five minutes of calling the Lord there's a different like direction to your to what you're doing you know and to me that's amazing you know whether you're a mom a dad of you know whatever you're doing two minutes three minutes it can just change your day you know and thank you brothers for sharing that to me is you know I don't have kids yet but I know that time is coming and you know you just got to get encouraged by you get two minutes gota you gota you gota treasure those two minutes and just touch God's purpose for a little bit I want to ask you brothers to comment on something. Um, and that's okay if I go here. Go ahead. But we wanted to give our our listeners kind of like, you know, we're talking about really lofty high things, which is God's purpose, eternal, but we want to leave them with something to to to really kind of grab on to. And we thought to use two questions that that Paul asked, you know, when he got saved. So, this is in Acts, you know, I think it's in Acts 22 where he actually asked these two questions. And I want you guys to comment on this, especially maybe even when you transition from, you know, doing full-time ministry to now working. You probably ask these questions again. And I think we we need to ask these all the time. Paul said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "What shall I do, Lord?" You know, and to me, we never end, you know, we never get graduate from asking the Lord those questions because he's ever something new to us and he's directing us all the time. So, how was that for you brothers in uh in you know just getting to know the Lord and and leading you to from one thing to another and um yeah have you did those two questions ring ring any experience in your being uh that you could share with uswhat a questionUm so that transition happened actually happened the same year we were uba led us both different paths after minister um for me definitely who are you Lord that to me that's to me that articulated you know we're in this relationship with the Lord which is romantic and just like My wife I got to know her. Yes. uh first two months you you know somebody but how I know her now after four years married it's completely like a different person right it's deeper different sides of them different aspects of them and I feel like we have with the Lord um I was asking you know Lord who are you to me now you know uh especially that juncture of from serving I said it I I didn't want to stop serving I feel like I'm not stop I haven't stopped in a sense because you just felt like you just love sharing Jesus purpose and um to me I never wanted to stop that taking a last breath. Um I just felt like the Lord I was asking him that Lord who are you now um to me and uh so about two wait oh that's last year it's crazy. Yeah. But last year um I started really considering Lord uh you know I know you deeper now. I I want to know you more. Is it in the same way as serving? Like I felt like I was getting led to uh go into a field of counseling. That's what I'm studying now. Um as a wonderful counselor. The Lord was making that known to me too. Amen. He's the wonderful counselor in case anybody need to hear that tonight. Um, and that felt like that was a new aspect of the Lord that that became fresher to me in this year in school that uh, doing ministry. There were a lot of needs from brothers I wanted to shepherd and disciple that I feel like I couldn't. I feel like I didn't have enough, you know, tools in my toolkit, in my utility belt. And um I felt like I was going to the Lord a lot about just I want to serve more. I want to help more. I want to help lead a lot of brothers and dear believers and people in the world further into God's purpose. And I felt like um there were a lot of barriers in someone's even mental health that might keep them from that. And I feel like I was having these new conversations with the Lord. Lord, this brother is suffering from mental health. this other brother serving from this other feel like that was kept rising and rising and I felt like um what I did was what I recommend for others is to fellowship maybe talk to an older believer about maybe where the Lord is leading you uh and that's what I did too a lot he's good um this guy a lot too and I felt like that led to what what must I do now uh for 4 years what I was doing was serving full-time. That's what it looked like. Tai living according to God's purpose. Um but then I had a fresh feeling like well what about now? I don't know what must I do now? To me it just felt like I needed to update my leading of the Lord and uh the opportunity came up. I get to go to back to go to go to school, study counseling just to with this vein of just like Lord, this is my new service. And there are other believers that serve in this way too. Um, and this kind of sets up professional counseling. And I feel like that the joy and the peace was there immediately. Still is there. And I feel like um with God's purpose, it ne it hasn't changed. Um in school, working to support me going to school, uh the baby. I feel like so many times in my life, the Lord has still been reminding me, "Yes, Todd. Well, this is it." Like much like when I was on the campus uh service, campus ministry, it was like little pockets of time even though that was sometimes really hard it was still sometimes when it's like keep going you know wow to pursue me in this way and I feel like this is the next direction and this the Lord has been pockets of time showing me that I saw this last year at school this is where this is where I had retire where right this is the the the the campus now um school fatherhood u working like this is my new uh avenue to live out this purpose. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Wow, that's awesome. Thanks for sharing. Counselor assist with you. Kai counsels me. Um me too. Yeah, it's such a me question, but I are you Lord? Um I think um the just a few maybe one or two ways the Lord is just in this season it's touching me that he's he's readily found uh he's because a lot a lot of times that question is when you get off the treadmill of doing full full-time ministry you know full-time church services and it's like where are you or the question rises up you're like you're buried in paperwork you buried in it with quotes. Mhm. And uh it's like where are you Lord? And and uh and you know the same disposition I had was doing both things full-time ministry and I have a very extreme disposition. So you know it's responsible for you know certain successes but also a lot of shortages. It's just um but I real and I just realized and the and the Lord was like I'm I'm right here. That's one thing. And another, I just realized the Lord I needed a father. I really I just really need a father because I'm like I felt like I was getting off a b like learning how to live again. Wow. Learning how to and I'm like I need a father to teach me. I don't know how to I don't know how to walk with Jesus. I don't know how to talk with Jes. I need a father to like really guide me through this. Um toss. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when when Paul uh ju just fellowship and father when Paul was uh on his way to find out what he should do someone else came to him to help him know what he would do, you know, Ananas came. So, I feel like the desire for a father of some fellowship is just we we we we're not alone, you know. Anyways, that's awesome. Sorry. Sorry, Josh. No, keep going, bro. No. No. I I was just trying to talk to, you know, fill the quote of time. I I I agree though. We I think I think all Belugas, but I like I always had this feeling for like young brothers that we like we need so many father figures. Yes. Especially today and you never outgrow that. Yeah. Um but the Lord is our father too. Amen. Uh Amen. this story early on of going this direction counseling and uh one of the fathers to me to us um he was kind of leads our campus ministry routine. remember the first conversation I had with him like I think I want to go this direction I think it's the Lord's leading go with counseling you know then this brother has known me since I was 18 I mean like he's a he's a father grandfather and my wife he really shepherds us and I thought he would be like ty you you can't leave you you can't leave the team the service right that's I think as honestly I was kind of like wanting him to say you know be like okay if this is really from the Lord I'll drop this if he's not, you know, good throw. But he gave me the biggest amen like and uh assurance like Tai I think that's that that's from the Lord. I could see that and even wow that gave me that kind of it's like the father's approval. I mean obviously God the father we he's the kids but to have that kind of like you know flesh and blood people from the Lord the mature believers give you that kind of like oh green light that is like God on earth that was to me the one of the biggest green flags to me like um seeking that kind of a spiritual guidance that's awesome I felt like that was instrumental that's awesome God has given us a lot of fathers That's awesome. I mean, I'll save that some other time, but that's my test somewhere, too. Save it for another time. Amen. You have something for us? Yeah. I mean, we're kind of at time. Yeah. And just before our guests leave, um, we want to ask a question. So, this is the words of this live podcast. So we want to know how the the word is is affecting you uh in a fresh way in like a what was the last thing that you enjoyed um in the word or in fellowship and can you share that with the group? I'll give you some time to think. I have a lot of patterns that are people who have jobs and I just I just feel to say that you know like you know you're talking about leaving campus ministry as a and I I just feel the Lord led in in every way through fellowship through your personal time with the Lord but where I am right now I have a lot of solid patterns to our job really busy people you know with jobs you know anyways to me you know in Matthew 24:25 it says two will be on the field you know like working you know working you know just just living a normal life, you know. So, just live a normal life in God's purpose, you know. Yes. To me, I I just treasure your testimonies because you're living God's purpose in your normal life. Yeah. And your family about your work life. That's awesome. Sorry. Go ahead.All right. So, pardoning words of this life, some something from the word. Um, yeah. I I've just been I think in Matthew and Revelation and just thinking about just the kingdom. Mhm. Umtrying to think of verse in particular, but that's been going through some some audio messages and um that's where that's where that came up today when I was just like praying with that brother. I'm like, let's pray for like I just realized like um one of the things I was asking myself is like I need Christ to be my king. Yeah. That's what the kingdom is. Christ is your king. Yeah. Over over his people. And then I just you just realize oh there needs to be something in me that happens and I was like my heart lord my heart. Amen. Um anyway, just being brought back to like that's like a Kingdom Fundamental, but it was it was really really uh I don't know good to me this this week. Um and then that that's how the hidden God gets a manifest expression. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Uh speak to the rock. Hey,speak to a rock. Tell us about that. Give us some background to that, bro. Yeah. Speak to the rock. Uh you're reading in numbers now. Uh I can get to the word late nights. Um when now you're speaking to the rock. Yeah. Who's listening to me? The rock. Um yeah, numbers. It a lot of a lot of complaining's happening. a lot of disgruntled uh children of Israel reminding me of just my life right now and a lot of grumbling complaining just you know why can't my baby sleep it's it's 10 o'clock you know bedtime is 7:30 you know and doesn't know I have to stud you know all these you know and then I come back to that word that's I've been read I've been reading the same like chapters for three days it's like sometimes you got you're like wait what did I read yeah got to read it again speak to the rocks I've read three times down. And what that passage is is hidden is that you know that was the direction uh the Lord charged Moses to do to spill out this water to feed the people when they were just they were just living for what about back in Egypt? Why why are we here to die? You know, if they're just complaining just like you know me late at night and I feel like the Lord is uh he's available. Amen. And Jac is showing that you just speak to it, water will flow. Amen. All his name. That was awesome. Amen. So, I guess I've been in it three times this week. So, it's been pretty fresh word of life to me. Amen. Speak to the rock. That was awesome. Light for Amen. That's awesome. That's great. Lord, my heart and speak to the rock. Yeah, boy. Dear King. Amen. Bros, thank you so much for sharing and being here. Oh, man. We can do this all night. I don't want to stop. It's great. We can get you on another episode. Oh, I get somebody else some space. But thank you guys for coming. You guys left us with left up left us with some stuff like God's eternal purpose. Live for it. Um yeah, stay romantic. Our relationship with God is romantic. And God wants to continue to grow in us. just give him the ground to keep growing in us. Um, so I just want to thank you guys. Any parting words? Are we good to go? Pablo, moving to Austin. Pablo's moving to Austin. No, no, no, no. I I've really enjoyed my stay here, though. My visit, man, is awesome. I hope we have more Boston. Austin blending. Uh, well, well, I got to explain what that means. Uh, just travel and visit. I want to go to Boston. You don't know what Brendon is. Let's go to Boston. Cool. Yeah, you guys are welcome to come anytime. comments and we're not doing that. Sorry. You almost stayed in Boston. Excited for your pod, guys. Oh, bro. Thank you for It's just good to speak to you. I feel like like you said, the best part of like speaking. You said you miss speaking with you. Yeah. In general. Speak for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just great to speak these things with you guys. It's just good to see you. I haven't seen you guys in a long time. We need Yeah. Excuses like this. Thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to hit that like button, subscribe, and leave us a comment below. We love chatting with you guys. We've got so much more content and powerful testimonies coming your way. So, follow us on our socials. And until next time, stay safe. Keep speaking about the words of this life.