Hi, welcome to Words of This Life podcast. My name is Pablo and here we share real and impactful Christian stories from believers who love the Lord and his word. Through these testimonies, we want to showcase the virtues of the one who's called us out of darkness into his marvelous light. Virtues that are at work in everyday people, shaping their character, guiding their actions, and shining forth his life into the world. We're so happy you're here with us for this episode and let's get right into it. Welcome back to the Words of This Life podcast. I'm Io. This is my co-host Pablo. Hello. Um and today is a very special episode. Yes. Um we have two very interesting guests with us today. Um Justin Street. Oh, I don't I didn't want to say her full name. Justin, Vanessa. How are you guys? Welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Yes, we're excited. Yes, this is great. This is great. Telling out the words of this life. Amen. That's right. Yeah. You know the marquee verse. Yeah, that's it. That's right. You got it right, Justin. The words of this life. So, we want to know all the all the that this life has done in both of you. Amen. In the in the frame of of a certain topic that we're going to maybe Io can introduce that topic for today or should we have them introduce themselves first? Yeah. I was thinking maybe a little bio. Tell us about yourselves. Yeah. Um, who you are, what you do, where you are in life now. Um, yeah, I'll go first. Yeah. Uh, I'm Vanessa and, uh, I am an executive coach here in Austin and I'm married and have three kids, but we had a big surprise six years ago. We already had two kids and then we had a bonus. Oh, wow. So, I have a college kid, high schooler, and a six-year-old. Wow. So, it's been fun. Yeah. Um, but been married for almost 23 years, and we're just living our best life. Amen. Wonderful. Yeah. Enjoying our Christian community and just letting the Lord surprise us. Amen. Amen. That's wonderful. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Um I'm Justin. Um I don't know this one. Hello. Uh Justin Street. Um one of four big big family. Um have had quite a bit of a journey as far as job titles go. um uh played sports and then worked in uh film industry for a period of years about 10. And uh and then uh just through through my twin brother and through the word I got connected to uh a club. Well, I met the Lord Jesus. Amen. And uh got connected uh to a club and work in ministry now. Wow. Yeah. So you just you're just thankful. It's amazing. I guess just for God's sovereignty and everything, you know, like everything he's done and he just doesn't give up on us. Yeah. And every season he brings us through is so purposeful. You can just look back and go, "Wow, you were doing something there. you were he's really like outwardly it all may change all the time but he's working on building Christ into us. Amen. That's right. That's like the whole point of this. Yeah. That Christ has been bu built into us is is what we want to see. Yeah. That's right. So, were both of you uh quick question raised by Christian parents or in a Christian environment or Well, my parents had a pretty dramatic salvation when I was around 5 years old. And so, I grew up in a Christian home. Okay. Since I was six. Okay. Yeah. Wow. Amen. How about you, Justin? About the same. Same. Okay. Yeah. We were Christian home. Uh taught to listen to the Lord. I remember praying at night before bed. Um, but I I think there was a point where you know how Paul said, "I've suffered the loss of all things, count them as refu, etc., etc." And then he goes on to say, "For Christ Jesus my Lord." Yeah. And there was a point later on, I think, in my life where the Lord became my Lord. Wow. I had a sweetness since I was probably eight. I got saved at eight. So had a sweetness with him but knew him more as ser in service. I need to do good serve God. Um not much in the way of depending on him and Yeah. Yeah. Just not doing. Yeah. Wow. Mainly out of my own strength probably. Yeah. But yeah. Vanessa, how about you? When did the Lord become your Lord? So growing up, my parents originally met with a like a mega church. Oh, really? And that's where I received the Lord was in a big mega church altter call. Mhm. And then they began a journey of just church hopping. We went from meeting with Pentecostals to Messianic Jews. That was interesting. Mhm. this Mexican family really meeting with Mexican I mean uh Messianic Jew Messianic Jews um to you know non-denomination holy laughter and my parents were so seeking holy and then through neighbors um they found a group that they really loved and so those were the years my high school years where the Lord really became real to me but I would say it was college where I was I didn't want God to be my parents God. I really wanted him to be mine. And I actually was hoping to run away from the Lord my college years, but the Lord just didn't let me go. And I feel like that's where he became real day by day. I mean, in high school, I had genuine experiences of the Lord, but college is where I actively chose the Lord. Wow. And then when I was picking a life partner, I was like, I need someone who loves the Lord and wants an open home and wants to preach the gospel. And so that changed my whole trajectory of life. Mhm. Wow. Did you go to UT? I did. Hey, fellow Longhorn. Yeah. What stories here changes the world. Yes. Completely changed my life cuz I met believers and met my husband. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Never heard of holy laughter before. Yeah, I mean it's a thing that trend heard of that. Sounds great. Yeah. Uh so today um we are talking about the divine romance and that term has kind of been thrown around in the previous episodes. Um and we're going to talk about love um and loving the Lord and what that means. Um, so yeah, uh, I think it's kind of funny when you think about love, there's a lot a lot of thought. It's a loaded word. It is love. There's so much culture behind it. That's right. You could say there's a whole holiday for love. Yeah. Yeah. So, when love pops up in people's heads, there's a thought that they go to. Yeah. Um, but one thing that the Bible unveils is that God is love. That's an that's a different thought. Uh I don't even know if people in the world consider that that God is love. His essence is love. Um uh but the thing is is that if God is love, he needs an object to love on. Um so we'll get we'll get into that, but just to kind of start the conversation, this is kind of a fun question. Um I want to ask the group, what is the craziest thing you've done for love for for someone you love? I can give you guys time and I I can start or whatever. Sure. I I I'll start. Um I guess it's not a I just when I was getting to know my wife um I probably flew Boston LA like 10 times in two months. I know a crazy amount of times. And I just racked up my miles like crazy. And um anyways, every other I felt like every weekend I was there. And anyways, I just felt like, what am I doing? But I was crazy. I was crazy. I was in love, you know. And um it happened so fast that my roommate at the time got me on a walk and I was like like I was like in the cold month of of of of uh we're in Boston in a cold month and he wanted to go on a walk and he's like, "Bro, are you you've only met her? Are you sure, bro?" Oh, he's like he was just he wanted me to be like he wanted some logical like explanation of why I was going so many times and why I was like falling for this girl so quickly. Yeah. And I was like, you know, he's this he's a little different than me. He's this like very logical consultant like very and he's like, "Bro, give me some like data, you know, like why why, bro? Why her? Why are you going so much?" I was like, "Bro, I'm in love. I'm just in love, you know?" And I Anyways, so I think I was a little crazy. I was a little crazy. And uh anyways, I think that's what that's what that's what love does to you, you know. Do crazy things your mind a little bit. Yeah. Anyways, you just do things that don't make sense. Yes. Especially to others. Yes. Right. Yeah. So, when my husband and I started seeing each other, um I just knew from the beginning like I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him, but he was really unclear. And there was a lot of noise in his life from family, you know, they just weren't on board with me. I mean, that's the truth. They just weren't on board with me. And we had this conversation where I asked him like, "Do you love me because that's all that matters." And he was confused. He's like, "I don't know." So, we broke up. We ended it. And of course, I was devastated. I was hurt. I was crying. But deep down I knew this one's for me. This is who the Lord has for me. So the crazy thing I did is I waited. Oh, right. Could have moved on. Yeah. Girlfriends were like, "Are you not going to move on?" Um my parents were like, "Are you not going to move on?" And I just felt I'm just going to wait and wait. I don't remember how long I waited. It wasn't super long, but I waited. And that was crazy. for me to wait. And eventually he came around and we continued seeing each other and got engaged and now almost 23 years later. Amen. It's good thing I waited. Yeah. Really? Yeah. That's the Lord gave you the best. Yeah. Right. That's my MMO. Is that your MO, huh? Tell us. Just wait. Just keep waiting. Hey, maybe maybe keep waiting. No, I I'm It's coming, bro. That's I think I'm thankful in general like you know God has he has to transform us, right? And that's that's where he's he's you could say he's adding him himself incrementally to us or dispensing or uh settling down making his home in all the areas of our heart. And what that requires is openings and transactions. I mean he's a gentleman, right? like he's not going to force you. I wish he would, you know, I wish he would just like, you know, just get it all done and say, "All right, let's go. Let's get out of here. Uh, we're done." But yeah, so that's been definitely an area of personally my life that has just I just call it my area of transformation cuz it just keeps me dependent. Amen. Um, but when you, you know, as I'm like speaking a lot to students and ministry and just thankfully being kind of forced to live in God's word a lot because you have to see people. Yeah. Right. And, uh, it's a great thing. Uh, you better get into the word. Um, you just realize God has a purpose. Yeah. And if you have, this is it right here. If you have a genuine need in your person, like if you have a genuine need, that is actually an opportunity. And I love that word opportunity cuz you realize that our we're Christians. Like we're different. We don't we we we we realize that there's a purpose in all things, right? and all things are working out for us that we would more and more express God in our who we are. Yeah. Um and so I'd say that like in that particular area, especially in my 20s, you know, when like that's pretty much the only thing on your mind is like, oh, oh, and then you know, you got friends and there's certain numbers and oh no, we're at this number now, you know, or now we're at that number. I'm like, yeah, now look at the one I got, man. like you know um you just realize that like I'm thankful for it because I remember the day that I I actually we're talking about love. I remember the day I was sitting I was in I was in LA and I was sitting in my little art studio garage um and I just said Lord and I I was reading you know and like I I didn't know a lot of these concepts to me you serve God God is great the devil's the enemy and the world is full of temptation and trouble and we need to serve God you know we need to do good um and just keep trying harder you you know, pretty much I was an athlete. But I remember the day I just I remember the day that I registered there was a genuine need for an intimate, caring, and I mean this in a divine sense, an intimate, caring lover to supply me. And I asked him, I said, "Well, I'm kind of matterof fact, I guess." I go, "Well, looks like it's your job now, man." And I said, "Well, I have a need, and you are the I am." Yeah. The I am in present tense. Amen. Not I was, not I will be. I am. Right. And so that's just one of like, you know, how many areas we need the Lord to just come in and supply us with who he is. And I said, Lord, you have to be a genuine uh you have to be my intimate lover. Yeah. And um yeah, some things started happening. you just had a sense that like there was an increase in his presence in my daily life um walking with him, talking with him and just opening in that way to share that aspect of my being with him that I don't I honestly don't think I would have gotten if I hadn't have gotten brought to that end of need, you know. Yeah. So, yeah. So that's that's that's my uh that's my my experience and this human journey. Um yeah. Are you going to share with us what the craziest Yeah. for love? Sure. Um I was thinking about it and I'm like, well, if we're looking on the side of crazy, I don't want to get in the weeds. I mean, I've painted I remember I painted a really wonderful picture. When your parents change from being mom to being a child of God, it really changes. At least it was for me. It changed. Like she became a child of God. And I looked at her life and I was I I was like, "Wow, what a wonderful story of God instead of hey mom," you know, like what are you doing? Oh, hey mom. And so one time I knew she loved sunflowers and I was looking for motivation to paint a painting and so I painted her some a big thing of sunflowers. Wow. Yeah. You know so an artist we're an artist. We Yeah, that's right. You and God together. I was going to tell you a story, but there was a brother one time I met I was on my way home from a prayer meeting and he was getting off a bus cover. He had bags and bags and this this dude was like 6'6 and his name was Luther King Johnson. Luther King. Luther King Johnson. Have I told you that story? No. I haven't. Oh, bro. Oh, brother Luther King Johnson. Where you at, boy? Get your butt to church, boy. I said we we we had a we we ended up spending the whole the whole night together on a journey. We were we he he got kicked out of a family situation and was looking for someone in his family who had run away and and he had all this stuff and we ended up having to uh camp out in a tent on Skid Row in LA. Wow. Yeah, that's insane. That was that's crazy. And we were we were but he loved the Lord. Mhm. And so we were in a tent sleeping at night on one of arguably one of the most dangerous roads in America just because of the mainly the flesh and human addiction. Um and we were praising the Lord in that tent. Wow. I had one thing of perier and it was our champagne to praise the Lord. We're like Lord Jesus we love you. Amen. We thank you Lord. It is cold, but you have warmed our hearts up. Amen. And yes, yeah. Oh, that's precious. I kind of Well, I won't want to take too long, but I'll add one more. This is a brother, right? Like he was experiencing the Lord. He didn't He was being He didn't want to say nothing. It started raining. Wow. And I started feeling water seek sneaking in through the tent and it was so cold. We were shivering. I was shivering. I was shivering to a point where I was like, "I've never shivered like this before." Well, you're just like like you can't stop it, you know? And and then finally, like we were both silent for about 20 minutes and he goes, "My brother, are you awake?" I'm like, "Yes, I am, my brother." My goodness, it's cold, isn't it? Yeah. And he was like, I didn't want to say nothing. I was like, "Me neither, bro. I was just trying to go to bed. And so yeah, we yeah so that's he always said whenever you think of me always say get your butt to church Luther King John we are the church less you know. Amen. That's awesome. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. Yeah. Great. Should I still go? Oh yeah. You have Yeah. I want to hear what you did. Yeah. What's your crazy thing? All right. Well, um, when me and my wife were dating, we would just go all over Texas and do fun things. Um, and I hate roller coasters. I absolutely hate roller coaster. I told I told you that's the one thing I won't do. We can go to SeaWorld. We can go to the beach, but please do not put me on a roller coaster. And I She did not care. Um, so we went to the state fair and um uh there was this ride. It was like this swing thing and it like spins while you're swinging. And the whole time I was there I was like not that one. Like please not that one. And we were eating like cotton. I forgot you know the fair food. Mhm. Um and I'd already gone on a few rides. I'm like okay hopefully she'll she'll see that I'm I'm really sacrificing here. Like I would never get on that roller coaster. I only went on that roller coaster because of her. And um so we were in line and she was like, "I want to go on that one." I was like, "Okay, Tammy, are you sure?" And she was like, "Yeah." And I was like, "Okay, okay, we're going to go on this one." And um Oh, it was such a It was such an embarrassing experience. I screamed so loud. I screamed so loud. I was screaming. I lost my voice. I had tears in my eyes. It was so bad that when I got off the ride and I was walking in the line, the people were looking at me and laughing cuz you could hear me screaming. Yeah. Over the the mechanics of the roller coaster and other people's I was screaming like cuz after a while, you know, you start swinging. It's like, okay, people are like and it gets sharp. I'm still screaming really loud. Yeah. That's probably the craziest thing I've ever done uh for anybody I love. Wow. But did it pay off? Yeah, we're married now. Yeah. And I think I think I got over my fear roller coasters. So, that's she's gonna test that. Um, but yeah, that's that's Yeah, that's the craziest thing I've done for love. That's awesome. You did that. Yeah, it's amazing. So, we've all done something crazy for love to different in different ways, different degrees. But I guess now we can talk about what on God's side, you know, I feel like all our experiences of doing crazy things for love are just a decimal like a small for like a foreshadowing of what God, you know, like when we do things for love, it's actually because God is actually full of that desire to do something for love, too. You know, God God did something crazy for love, right? God did a very crazy thing for That's right. And um anyways, actually the whole universe like the heavens, the earth, it's all just it's it's is what he did for love. Like this is the setting for this love story that you're mentioning, this divine story of romance. And maybe we can comment a little bit on the beginning of this love story, right, of uh Genesis, you know, God comes and he I like the word that Justin used, lover. You know, God is God really is a lover and we we should know God as our, you know, our personal lover. And in the first few chapters of the Bible, God kind of unveils in a very hidden, mysterious way that he is this lover in the picture of Adam and Eve. But maybe we can um just reference that passage and just comment on what we um yeah what how that passage has become maybe a lie to us in seeing that God is a lover, you know? So anyways, I'm sure to some degree we're familiar, right? Is that right? With with Adam and Eve and and and God putting Adam in the middle of the garden and saying it's not good for you to be alone, but really meaning that it's not good for him to be alone, right? M so anyways I don't know if uh there's uh an experience or a some light from the truth where that that became real that God's feeling of loneliness is actually or our sorry our feeling of loneliness is actually just a mirror image or a match that God is actually feeling this desire to be with someone else you know um and and then when we find out then we realize oh god God loves me in that kind of a way in the way that a husband loves a wife, you know. So, is that the right question? Is that right? Yeah. Going to the right place here. Yeah. I think every Christian in a sense understands that God loves them, right? Um Mhm. You know, you the most famous verse in the Bible is John 3:16, right? For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. Um so we see that God loves us in that way. And then if you go to uh Ephesians 5, you see that uh Christ died for the church. He gave himself up for us, you know. So the the the love gets a little more specific. If you go to Galatians 2:20, you see that this Christ, he gave himself up for me. Mhm. So, uh if you're a Christian, you know that God loves you specifically. He loves the church and even he loved the world, too. Um, but you might have this framework of like this is savior saved. He's my redeemer. He's the creator that fix my problem of sin. But he loves us in a in the most intense way. Humanly, the highest form of love is uh the love between a husband and a wife. That romantic kind of love. And um if you go to Isaiah 54:5 um but the Bible says your maker is your husband. Yeah. That's the the extent of the love that God has for you. Not simply to just be your savior and your redeemer, but you be uh in a husband and wife relationship, that kind of loving relationship with him. Um yeah. Right. So um and you brought up Genesis. Yeah. Genesis is this just picture of that desire in God's heart. Yeah. And that's right. Yeah. Maybe we could turn it to our guest. When did your Christian life have a or Christian walk have a change? When you realize that the Lord is this intensely desirous of having a relationship with you that is not just of a father and son or father and daughter, but is of a husband and a wife. you know, like he wants to have an intimate affectionate and and did that kind of change your walk with the Lord or did that or maybe it's changing, you know, I don't know. I feel like, you know, it's something that I need to even remind myself every day, you know. So, I don't know if there was a a moment in your Christian walk where this became more real. We're like, oh, I think you already mentioned it, Justin, but you can develop it a little more like how your relationship with the Lord changed when you realized he wants that loving, affectionate, intimate, private relationship with me. Amen. Yeah. I mean, I think it's just in general because we just I mean, same like I was saying, growing up in a Christian environment, you're kind of you're kind of taught to it. It's it's in like the same breath of like being a good person. Like, I need to be a good person. I need to do good. Uh well, at least I'm better than that guy. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not as bad as those people are, so I'm doing okay. But really like we don't we don't we lose out on like kind of the key to the whole entire Christian experience which is whenever the heart turns to the Lord, right? The veil is taken away, right? The veil the of the flesh that separates us from really experiencing him like and and that everything here is just a shadow. All the positive things in the universe are a shadow of Christ. So like even when people are singing about love, they may not know it, but they're singing about Christ. Yeah. You know, and so I think just that there just hearing that God is a is a romantic in a divine sense, it just changes you and that he wants to have a husband and wife marital relationship. It brings him into your day. It brings him into washing cups. Okay. Yeah. You know, and going and and that the that that there's a principle there that um that a wife takes a husband as her head, right, in Ephesians 5, right? I knew I knew that my soul needed Christ. And then then as a husband, the principle there is we live a life dependent. We depend on him. We call on him. Like the whole Bible's full of it. and just realizing that the Bible was written in a context of romantic love. Wow. Wow. It opens the whole thing up. Um but yeah, you just you just don't realize that even in the Old Testament like in Jeremiah he said like come back to your bridal love. Yeah. You know, um my bridal love I had for you, you know, that's God's heart. That's that's God's person. He's a romantic lover. And I just cuz when people hear it, you know, you you get that like Yeah. Like almighty God. Like Yes. Almighty wonderful romantic God. Yeah. That's great. It's just that look. Yeah. Yeah. That look you just did, Justin, is the same look I have ingrained in my head of a student that that me and this brother till today we laugh about. We showed him Isaiah 54:5 and he did like that same look you just did. He looked at the Bible like what? Like he's my husband? I don't think he had ever read that verse. So I I think it's is a is a shock realization shocking realization to anyone who's never, you know, I wondered, you know, how many Christians know that, you know, anyways, it's just it it's a it's a it wrecks you, you know, we're talking about being wrecked to realize that God wants you in that in that kind of a way. Anyways, yeah. Yeah. I I was was considering while listening to Justin, yeah, there's this concept of God and us as his creation. And then as you one day believe in the Lord, there's this all of a sudden belief that you have to serve God, a doer, doing things for God. And just in my high school years, my relationship with the Lord was more I have to keep rules and maybe a little bit of doing. And then in my college years, it started shifting to him more as my friend. I can tell him everything. I can talk to him. But it still wasn't that love as a husband wife idea yet, right? And it was probably more into my adulthood. When you read the scripture, it's so clear. He says, "I'm jealous over you." Yeah. With the jealousy of God. Like jealousy happens because you love. Like you're so consumed and you just can't handle if they love someone else, right? And there's so many pictures of marriage where it's a picture of Christ and the church, right? Love husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church. Love and gave himself up for her. But it I would say when I got married, that's where I really started Wow. to see it and experience it because when I married Sam, I was doing things I would never do. Mhm. Because I loved him and I just wanted to be with him. I remember I was with him so much he told me, "You need to get a hobby." And I was like, "What? I well can I have a hobby with you? He's like no no no. But that that's it was my first year of marriage. I was so in love and and that's where I started seeing like the Lord loves me like that where he wants to be with me all the time. Uh but I will tell you I started my own business 5 years ago and it has brought a whole other level of relationship with the Lord. Yeah. And I am really experiencing him now as my husband. I don't have a boss to report to. I don't have people giving me feedback like Mhm. And so I have to go to the Lord and let him really care for me and love me. And it's been so sweet. Wow. To just let him be be my husband. It's like and it's like in my marriage I have my husband to help like head things up, but in my business my husband's not a part of it at all. You know, it's it's it's mine. And actually, the Lord gave it to me. And so, I've been entering this relationship that's so sweet, so tender, where I'm always checking in with the Lord. Lord, are you doing this? Do you want me to do this? Should I network in this way? Lord, I feel so lonely. I wish I had a team. I'm just going to the Lord for everything as my husband, just caring for me and letting him guide me and lead me. So, I feel like in the Christian life, it's just this continuous journey of experiencing the Lord in so many ways. Wow. And it makes it does make me sad when believers are not experiencing him to the fullness. Yes. According to the word. Yes. where he loves us so much and jealous over us. That's right. When we go to other loves Yeah. Wow. It's like marriage is really just a picture of what he wants with the church. Yes. That loving relationship. It changes everything. It changes how you serve. It changes how you show up. Changes how you dress. Yes. That's true. What you drive. It changes so many things. That's right. Because you're in this loving relationship with the Lord. Yes. Amen. Amen. That's awesome. Yeah, it touches every aspect of our life. Yeah, that's amazing. You got something? Yeah. Um, you know, for me, there was a moment in college where I was going through I had went through a bad breakup, a really bad one. It was ugly. And I was just so down on myself because I'm like, wo is me. I'm so unlovable. Why didn't this work out? I was in I was suffering. But um around that time, the people I was like having fellowship with in Bible study, they were showing me that like like we're talking about now that God wants this like spousal relationship with us. And like you mentioned earlier, uh uh Justin, those verses and the way the the Lord is speaking in uh Jeremiah is so sweet. He's like, "Remember your bridal days." Mhm. when you're walking with me in the wilderness. Like you read you read Exodus and it's like okay these people are grumbling. They don't want the mana. Like they're getting upset with the Lord. I mean with you know with Jehovah. And to him that was that was like the bridal days. It was sweet. And um you know he there's a statement of like uh this this verse I need to pull it but what iniquity did you find in me that you forsook me? uh the fountain of uh living water for broken sisters, right? Jeremiah 21:13. And I was like, whoa. Like you hear how God is talking in that in that verse like what is wrong with me? Yeah. Why don't you love me? Why don't you come to me for supply? Wow. And you're going after other like broken sistns that that that don't satisfy you. Yeah. And there I was like I felt like I was a woman at the well. Like this is another relationship. It it failed me. And uh here's a here's God telling me like, "Io, you think you're a lover that's heartbroken? I'm a lover that's heartbroken because you won't give yourself to me." Wow. And I was like, man, forget what I'm going through. Yeah. Like I'm breaking God's heart by not allowing this kind of relationship to be had with me and him. At that point, I was being super religious and just, you know, uh being a rule-based Christian. But after that, I was like, I need to be a a a Christian that that's in love with the Lord Jesus. Wow. And and let him be my husband. And that's in a very it's a very pure sense like the Lord wants to be our husband. He wants to be everything to us. He wants to speak to us about everything. He wants to let us in to everything. Um and we consider him in all these things. And after that, it's just I don't know. I had to give myself to the Lord and give myself to what the Lord wants church. And like you said, it just shifts things. It it it upgrades your Christian life. Yeah. Maybe without that relationship ending, you know, and going south, you wouldn't have had that re that that experience, that realization. It just points to me what what you mentioned, Vanessa, that God is so jealous. Like he's so jealous over us. He'll allow things to I mean, he'll use the things that touch our hearts the most, you know, which is, you know, you know, relationships and things to just he'll let things in. and he'll let things just because he he's just so determined to get to that we would be his, you know, that we he would have our whole heart, you know. Anyways, I just Yeah. I just praise the Lord that he's that determined, you know, like he he won't let us go. Um, have you guys had an experience like that where the Lord is is is touching you that you'd make him the the first love in something? Well, the first thing coming up is I've been considering my time. M and energy. You know, I I have a lot of things that take time and energy. And I when I have my quiet time with the Lord, I've been sensing him saying like, I want more of you. I want more of your time. I want more of your energy. Like, you're not spending enough time with me. Wow. And so, I've been Wow. looking at my calendar because I operate 100% on a calendar. or if it's not on my calendar, it's I don't show up. And I was like, I need to put my time with the like more times with the Lord in my calendar because I have a flexible schedule and just considering what to do with my time, the time that I have. But that's one thing I'm feeling a little jealous about. Wow. You know, that one- on-one deep personal time with the Lord. Wow. Because in a marriage, a marriage is not healthy if you're not spending quality time. Oh yes. Yes. You know, my husband and I, our top love language. Have you all heard of the five love language? Love language. Yeah. Yeah. We both share the quality time. Yeah. Oh. And if we do not have quality time, we tank. Yeah. Wow. And so we know like h we're just fighting cuz we're not having quality time. Yeah. And quality time isn't doing business. Cuz sometimes we'll go on a date and we just do business like, okay, who's picking up the kids? You're traveling this week. What do we do? No, it's just like, love, how are you today? Yeah. like what's on your heart, what's going on, like are you doing okay? What are you struggling with? What's going well? And I feel like the Lord's wanting more of that from me. Cuz I do like to do business with the Lord. Right. Right. It's like, let's do business, Lord. Yeah. Like, who are we praying for? Yeah. Right. Right. My kids, Lord, this the business, whatever. But it's just am I making time to spend time with him? Yeah. To know his countenance. Yeah. To know what he's saying, what's on his heart. Yeah. For us. Yeah. Some brothers say love is a four-letter word. T I M E. Right. Oh, I love that. Oh, I like that. Without time, there's no love. Like, how you going to love someone without time? You got to give them time, right? Same in marriage. That's right. Time. Yeah. Go ahead, Justin. My mom likes to garden. And for a period of time, she had one of one of her family members living with her. And uh she was kind of venting to me, you know, saying like, "Oh, you know, like they have to work." And this this one was kind of getting on me cuz I don't have to work, you know, and I got, you know, I I'm back in the garden, you know, and but she experiences the Lord in the garden, you know, every day something new. It's like Song of Songs. Let's go see if it's budded. Is any buds? Wow. Enjoying like the the life is happening. Let's go look. She was excited, you know, and I I just remember the Lord put it on me because I had a period of time where the Lord just gave me nothing for probably two years and I just had nothing to do. But I told her, I said, "Mama, you shouldn't um if it's not coming to you in life, just don't just don't eat it. don't receive it because it's it's it's a very important thing for those who are cooperating with the Lord to have time and to make time because uh you the Lord is is spending time with you and he's opening his heart to you and you may be praying prayers that are actually getting things done for him like work. I'm so like that. I'm like I'm like I'm like like let's start praying. All right, Lord, let me talk to you about something. I am not happy with this. This is taking too long. You need to hurry up over here. You've had 5 years of prayer that way. Like, hurry up. Why is that person not, you know, etc. You know, I'm just so like that. I'm just so like goaloriented, but like to take time, it's like Genesis, right? Where the where God came and met with Abraham. He had some food with him in a tent. Then he walked with him and he chatted with him. And then he opened up his heart about Lot, you know. So time, making time. Yeah. Like it's so important because our being is so loud and it takes you get 30 minutes of time. You may have five minutes of time that's like really actually open, you know, even throughout all this, but it's that's just like yeah, I forget what the context of the question is, but yeah. Actually, could we lean on that a little bit? like our successes, our failures of trying to find time in our life to in this, you know, spouse relationship with the Lord. It's, you know, if you don't have a schedule, it doesn't get done. Like I feel like the listeners, I mean, I think we all struggle, right? It might be some help to just maybe go around the four of us and just say how how we Yeah. What's our experience of I mean, I can I can go for I mean, yeah, there's a lot of failure in that to how to give the Lord and where to give the Lord time. Yeah. um in our lives, you know, in our daily lives, you know, kind of something that kind of it's kind of a handle, you know. I work in corporate America and sometimes that means working beyond 8 to 5. Um so sometimes I put off work and I got to wake up early in the morning to get to it or I'm working late nights. And um one thing that's been a struggle, but it's been sweet when I've given the Lord the time is to give him time in the morning. Amen. And like reserve that time for him. And I used to feel a bit religious about this like I need to start the day with the Lord because he is the Lord. He's God. I need to start my day with God. That's right. you know, which is, you know, there's some aspect of that, but um it I just was I I was kind of like touched over the past few weeks that I need to do this in love. Like uh I res I'm trying to put an alarm clock next to my bed so I don't wake up with my phone. Mhm. And I try to at least reserve the like first 30 minutes of my day to to the Lord in a loving way like this is for you. I'm preserving my myself for you. Um, and it I don't know when I started doing that, I realized like this is like this is so much like how I am with my wife. Like um I like to eat with my wife. That's kind of our thing. We like to go out to eat together and um or order food together. And there's and she likes to make me food. Like that's one of the ways that she expresses love to me. Is your love language, bro? Food? No. But I think I'm one of those people that like is it four? I think I like all five. What's it act of service gifts? Yeah, I like all of them. There'll be times where I'm like, I want to eat this thing and I can door dash it and I can just eat right now, but I'm like, "No, I'll just wait. I'll wait for my for my wife to get home so that we can order something together and have that time together or go drive together." And I feel like that's kind of in in uh infused the way I deal with the Lord. It's like, Lord, I'm going to I'm going to give you I'm going to give you 7:30 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. and I'm going to give you 5:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. after work. I'm going to give you uh 7 to 9 on Sunday. Wow. and those that will be our time and it's me and you, you know, that's kind of and I I fail, you know, a lot of a lot of days I just I I turn to the Lord, I'm like, I don't love you enough, you know, but um those moments are are sweet. Amen. It changes, right? Whatever season of life you're in. Exactly. That's right. And you just have to figure out what works best for you. That's right. In that season, I was just thinking when I was single, I had a lot more time, right, to enjoy the Lord and love on him. And and then when I had babies, the best time was the middle of the night. Yeah. I had the sweetest prayers with the Lord in the middle of the night. I mean, I would cry sometimes because it was so touching. And then when they started growing, it was like, Lord, I love you. That's all I've got. You know, and now in my season, I have to get up before everyone else. Because once our day is going, it's it goes. So, I get up before everyone else and I just have 15 minutes. I don't do a long time. Sure. But because of my work schedule, I sometimes have times to take a break. So, I just go around the block and walk. And that's where I just really enjoy the Lord. Amen. And that's that's how I'm that's my season right now. Morning and walks with the Lord. That's great. Walks. Yeah. Right. You know, when I first met you, we went on a walk. I remember that. Whoa. What happened on that walk? Went on a walk with IO. It was like I had just started serving. Um, and I just went on a walk with IO and I didn't know what to do. And I remember I remember I was like we were talking and I just remember like pulling pulling something out and sharing it with him and he was like, "Oh yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, the Lord is like that." And then he would share something else and I'd be like, "Wow, you know what? That's a really good point, too. Here, let me show you this, too." We went for 45 minutes. It was a 45minute walk. And I was like, "My goodness, this brother is constituted." Wow. Amen. I was like, I pulled everything I had out. And he was just right there in stride like, yeah, totally. That's exactly right. But hey, let me show you this. And I was I was blown away. I was I was legitimately blown away. And I'm like, I don't know what we're going to get into next cuz I think we just went through the whole entire Bible. But yeah, making time. You got to make time. Amen. We We serve We're serving our team's real busy. We're real busy all the time. Yeah. Mhm. And uh you don't love it. But sometimes you actually you have to learn to say no. You have to learn to listen to if the Lord is doing that or not. Cuz I used to always think the Lord is just I I was like a I was a yes man, you know. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get it done. That'll be fine. And then you're strung you're stretched thin. And they you could say what we say is like you you you got to learn to serve by grace. You got to listen to grace. Do you have grace for that or not? Yeah. And maybe you don't. And sometimes the Lord's saying, "I'd rather you actually like be a person who's full of life than a person who's not still doing all these good things for me." Right. Right. Like I don't care. I don't I'm like done with all your sacrifices. I'm done with all this stuff. I just want someone to love me, you know? Take some time to like be together. But I was gonna when you were talking I was thinking isn't it amazing like have you ever turned to like make time for him and he didn't show up man he is there. Yes. I mean there's times where he's quiet and then you have to seek him in different ways. I want to balance that. But wow. He is so ready every time you turn. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Amen. you're you sharing reminded me of um because I I spent some years doing campus ministry and I remember that one morning we showed up to coordinate and figure things out and our boss started talking about how's your time with the Lord? And I don't know what triggered it, but he got fired up and he's like you're useless to the Lord and to the church if you do not have time with the Lord. And he made us all cancel whatever we had. Wow. That morning. And he said, "Go spend time with the Lord." And I have never forgotten that. Wow. Because we're we're doers. We want to go do things for the Lord, but we forget he's God. He could do whatever he want. He just needs to speak it into being. Yeah. But what he wants is our heart. That's right. Right. He wants that loving relationship of husband and wife. Yeah. You just got to make time. Absolutely. We are useless. Yes. To the Lord. That's right. And to others. Yes. You have to serve from a place of overflow. Yes. Of love, of joy. Yes. And that comes from being with him. The spirit, right? The fruits of the spirit. That's right. Is an abundance when we're just receiving Yes. all that. Yeah. Wow. There's a verse that we we we considered a lot when we were getting ready for this episode is um where is it? The love of God second Corinthians. Yeah. Like this this love is like the fuel for our Christian life. It's uh that's so good. Yeah, that's what you were sharing was just reminding me of. And yeah, this love like this spousal relationship that we have with with the Lord is the center of the universe. It's Yeah. Um I I I heard that like like last week like uh someone was sharing and they were like, you know, John 1:1 you get in the beginning, but this is from eternity. And then in Genesis 1:1, you get the be in the beginning and that's right when creation started. Mhm. And you know if you go to Revelation 4:11, you see that all things were created for God's will. So what was happening between that gap? What was the divine counsel in the Godhead for what un uh the universe will be? And um if you go back to Isaiah 54:5, you see that God's intention with the universe was that it'd be a wedding parlor. Yeah. A wedding venue. and that um us being giving ourselves to love love God in the spousal is the center of the universe. That's right. The the universe is the backstage for that event. You know what I'm saying? And um man, I don't know like that's wonderful. Amen. That's like I don't know that really helped me. centered me to un uh in my college years to understand that the reason why I was made, why I was created, why the universe was created is to love God in this very deep way. Yes. So good. Yeah, that's right. You know, amen. When I was getting into the the topic of this podcast, um I had lunch with a mom friend of mine. um our daughters do a sport together and I've been so burdened for her to receive the Lord and I got to preach the gospel to her about the divine romance only cuz we were in it and people's basic need is to be loved. It just is. They just want to be loved and belong. That's the basic need of mankind. Mhm. And so when I was preaching the gospel to her, I just said, "God, it's a love story and that resonated with her because she's human." Anyway, she prayed and received the Lord yesterday. And um Amen. And I wouldn't have done it if had I not been in this topic of the divine romance. Like that's a much higher gospel than you're a sinner, you're going to hell. Which is true. That's in the word. But that God just wants to woo you. Yeah. And be everything to you. But it doesn't even stop there, right? He wants to bring the country girl to match who he is. Wow. So then we're in this journey. And I was telling her, the Christian life is not about giving up things. It's about gaining so much that we match him. Amen. Express him. That's right. And I got to share that with her. And she just wept cuz she's divorced, she's single, raising her daughter. And that's what people need to hear. That God wants a romance. Amen. With them. Wow. And eventually that's what the Lord wants from us is that this love would would fill our mouth. You know, we would speak this love. You know, I was telling I right before the episode started that this morning I was driving here from and a song came to to mind which is based on this verse. I'll just read it. It's is Psalm 45:1. My heart overflows with a good matter. I speak what I have composed concerning the king. My tongue is the pen of a ready writer. Amen. You are fairer than the sons of man. Grace is poured upon your lips. Anyways, when we love the Lord, we just want to speak about him, right? So I I just this so awesome that as you were prepare preparing for this episode, you you spoke something to someone. I think that's just so I overflowed. You just overflowed agreement. Yes. Anyways, praise the Lord that that's what the Lord Anyways, I feel like most of the episode we talked about the personal side, our personal time with the Lord, you know, but eventually this divine romance is there this verse in Song of Songs, draw me and we will run, you know. So I think anyways, the goal is corporate, right? We're lovers in personal private way, but the the Lord wants us to bring others into this love like you brought that friend. What is it for? For the building. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amen. And you know, it's all over it's just all over the Bible. Like uh like Paul when he was writing, he was like, I I'm I'm betroing you Yeah. to Christ. And like even in the parables, like Jesus was likening the church to brides. M you know what I mean? Like we we are all together the bride of Christ. Yeah. And that means we're to love him in this spousal way in this deep way. And yeah, I'm just I'm just overflowing. I just like I'm just enjoying that. I give you a good one, too. You know the the you know Song of Songs like there's there's there's Solomon, right? And then there's the the Schulamite or the lover, the country girl, the so many things as she goes through the journey, right? Like that's um you know that the same word is used for both of their names. It's the Hebrew Hebrew word for like you could say it's like there's like the beloved and then there's the lover. But we just call her the lover because it makes sense like she's the lover. But actually the word is just love. Wow. Wow. It's just love in Hebrew. Yeah. It's just and it's the masculine form of it and it's the feminine form of it. Yeah. Wow. It's just a story of what God is doing in love. Amen. It's a story of love. And she's, you know, I don't know if anybody knows this story. Song of Songs is like the personal Christian journey, right? The personal Christian life as you you start is like a horse, you know, really strong, really opinionated, uh, with tons of personality. Like, and one thing about a horse, I like this. If you spook it. I saw a show on these Montana guys. They spooked a horse and the horse was like, "I'm out of here, man." You know where they found it? 10 miles away. Still running. Still running. Wow. That's us sometimes. That is us. We're like, "I'm out of here, man. I can't do this anymore. I'm gone." Yeah. And then the Lord starts moving in and he starts being more and more one with him because the seeker's name eventually becomes Schulamite which is just the feminine version of Solomon. Yeah. So she becomes the same as Christ. Same as Christ in life, nature, expression, and function. Wow. The him in my my in my being. We're qualified to work with him. Yes. As his body as we become the same. Cuz like what are we building with if we're just in ourselves? We're just building with what wisdom like uh our natural ability um etc. But like we want to build uh we want to be ministers of the spirit. Yes, that's what I was thinking. But and you know in in a in a marriage like you have that honeymoon love, right? That Yeah. gooey lovey everything's wonderful and then you realize you have two different opinions two ways of doing things. How do you handle the finances? And in my experience there there's the in a relationship as you go deeper with a person there's those hard conversations and I feel like that's the same in our Christian life. like it's enjoyable. You know, new believers are so fresh and they love the Lord, but then the Lord starts touching things, right? I'm jealous over you. You You're doing too much of this or you're holding back from me. Yeah. You're not being vulnerable with me. And like my husband and I, you know, he grew up not being vulnerable. And as a female, I'm very vulnerable. And we had to really work through all those things to have hard vulnerable conversations. Mhm. And that's what the Lord wants as well in that loving. That's how he's transforming us. Yeah. Is having hard conversations, letting him touch us in our deepest parts. Even him just, you know, slapping us on the wrist, you know, like I wasn't doing that and you did it anyway. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like there's that too with the divine romance is there's hard conversations with the Lord. We're we're confessing. There I go, Lord. For me, it's like, there I go, Lord. I did it again. I did this without asking you. Yeah. And that's why I'm burned out. Yeah. And resentful cuz I didn't ask him. Yeah. And he wasn't doing it, right? And it was good. And it's it's the same in the human marriage, right? Like anyway, Yes. I love how like our whole Christian life is on that line of the of the divine romance. Like our salvation like our our redemption was by love. It was through love. Even like you said, our transformation is in this loving divine romance. Like those hard conversations. That's our that's that's when we get changed. That's when we when he adds himself to us. Like even when we serve, like you guys mentioned, it's through love. It's by love. It's in love. Yeah. And and and that's love that we have between us and and the Lord. And um it's just it's like love's the sphere of it all. All the Christian experiences, it's love. That's right. Yeah. Wow. Mhm. Amen. Yeah. That's right. Love is the sphere. Love is the goal. I mean, I feel like all of us here enjoy this that the Bible begins with a marriage and ends with a marriage, right? the end of the Bible is a marriage. God and his people, you know, it's just amazing that that's our story. You're right. This is this is this is the the characteristic of our whole Christian life is driven by love, you know. So, I don't know how we should end this, but is there I I feel like I I enjoy my loving relationship with the Lord through singing a lot. I like to sing. I don't know if you guys sing. Yeah. I don't know if you guys want to share a a song you like to sing, but I don't know. You know, you got to keep the love fresh, you know, like there's a it's hard to keep the love fresh in like just reading the Bible or just sometimes singing a a really sweet, you know, short song. It keeps keeps our love fresh, you know. Yeah. Yeah. On the drive here, I was listening to some hymns, Christian songs, and it just it's like the the love for the Lord percolates. Yes. It's like, "Oh, I really love you, Lord." You know, yes, songs are right are a great way to bring us back to our love for the Lord. Amen. You know what also helps me love the Lord more? Are the other believers. Yeah. I had a bad week. It was low. And the sister and I just another believer in the Lord and I, we got on the phone and you know, she gave me some tough love. M she's like, "You're fine. You need to turn to the Lord." And she reminded me of all the ways the Lord has come through for me and my family. Like she was speaking truth to me. And then we just started praying and I was like, "Lord, that was your love for me was through that believer." So I feel like being believers feel I just it was I hung up and I was like, "I love you, Lord, more." Amen. Like I just do. Yeah. Right. That's amazing. That's another whole awesome topic. Yeah. The Christ and everybody else. Yeah. Like, wow. Yeah. What God's doing. And then there we're all loving each other. It's like this is the commandment. Like he g came and one I'm going to give you one commandment, but you can't actually we actually can't do it apart from him. No way. It's like we just we're short. We have so many preferences. Oh, opinions, references, peculiarities that'll make others get into their opinions and preferences, right? But it's like this is what God's doing. He's he's he's working himself into man. And there's And now you have the masterpiece. Yeah. This humanity absolutely one with God expressing God. And we're seeing and we're learning like God is a lot more than we thought. Yeah. Is not our simple concept. Love even isn't our simple concept of love. Like like what you were saying like and I'm not going to go long. I just that just blew me away cuz I' I've been thinking that. I'm like that would I wouldn't be frustrated if there wasn't even if there wasn't love. Like he wouldn't be jealous if there wasn't love. Like the love is the motivator. It's like in God's heart. And now he's filling all his people with his eternal, inexhaustible, unconditional love. Amen. So there could be a humanity that actually expresses such a glorious, wonderful expression of God on the earth. Yeah. Amen. Yeah, that's good. What you're sharing reminds me of that verse, and maybe you all know the reference. It's we know we have passed out of death into life because we love the brothers. Yeah, that's first 1 John 3:14. Yeah. Look at you sniping it. So that the result of us enjoying the love of God as our husband is we love. Amen. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. There's this one hymn I love to sing and it's probably a top three hymn for me and it's a very simple simple hymn. It's Simply Loving Every Day and the the lyrics really hit for me. Yeah. Good song. Like simply loving every day. Loving through a stormy way. Like Yeah. Even as as the moments fly. Yeah. As the days go by, whatever befall, loving Jesus, that is all. That is all. Amen. Loving him while life shall last. Loving him till earth is pass. Uh till his gracious advent call. Loving Jesus. That is all. Amen. That that line loving Jesus that is all. Like it it centers me. Like you I can get locked up in activity and and work and life but even in my Christian life I can all these substitutes like knowledge and studying and service they can get bubble up but loving Jesus that is all. Amen. And I I love singing that that that that line back to the Lord that loving Jesus that is all. It's awesome. It's a great song. Yeah, that it's a a good question to ask yourself myself every day is how's my love for the Lord? Yeah. An older person shared that with me when I was younger. Yeah. What's your love? And if it feels small, that means we're not logging enough time. Yeah. Right. Or we find our heart sticky towards so many other things. It's like how's your love? I tell that to my teenage daughter. How's your love? M instead of like how's your Bible reading? Yeah. Yeah. It's good. It's like how's your love for the Lord? Because when you love, you just give yourself to the Lord or more. Give yourself more. Yeah. Yes. Mhm. There's no better way. No other way is so safe to love the Lord. I love that. Right. That quote is good, right? No other way. No other way so safe and so full than joy. What's the entire quote? Give yourself to love the Lord. Right. No other way. So, prevailing prevailing. So sick. It's also a song, right? Hey, wait. I mean, sing really want to sing, you know. Hey, let's do a a Justin solo. We can we can put audio autotune on it, right? Yeah. Yeah, we can playing over the top and then we'll just be moving. I'm a terrible singer. Yeah. Yeah. But I love singing. Great. Wonderful. Well, we love the Lord Jesus. I feel like I love the Lord more after this conversation. Yeah, he's worth giving your life. He is. That's right. He's worth wasting our moment, you know, our time. Like I love that we can just waste our lives on him and it is precious to him. Like to the world is a waste, but to the Lord is precious. Yeah. And we're just crazy lovers. Yeah. Was very enjoyable. Oh, I'm glad. Justin, do you love the Lord more? I My heart is warmed up to love the Lord more. Amen. Amen. I think I might have some rapid question. Some quick some questions. Yeah. Yeah. We're not done with you guys yet. Oh. Oh. Rapid like rapid fire. Yeah. Like you can't think too long. You just have to answer whatever comes first. Kind of hot. Yeah. Um this first one should be easy. Um I hope it's easy. Uh what is your favorite book of the Bible and why? Romans. Ah you're the second person that said that today. I love Romans. Yeah. Uh, whatever I'm in. Wow. Okay. Good answer, too. Philippians is great. It's a good answer. Okay. It's a good one. Good. That's a lot of two. Yeah, it's great about it. That's good. Okay. So, these people are real. Um, what we get when this question we'll call them characters. Who's your favorite character in the Bible and why? Can't say Jesus.Well, my first first is Paul, but I also love some Old Testament women. My dad. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Esther cuz I'm a woman. So, yeah, I love to read about them. Yeah. First name that popped up was actually Hannah. Wow. Oh, she was the one who had the prayer the prayer that prayer ministry in her tough in her situation that she had that that brought in Solomon who turned the age turned things man. Wow. Samuel. Samuel. Thank you. Yeah. Not Oh, I thought in my head I heard Samuel brought in I didn't register that Solomon II. No, I'm I was reading fourth John and that's where I got that from. Um favorite verse and why? Romans 8:28 and 9. Amen. You got to have that 29. Oh yeah. Why? Because all things are working together for good. But 29 tells you what the good is to be conformed to the image of his son. Amen. So, it just reminds me we're in this process of being transformed, conformed. That's what's good. Amen. Amen. It's a good question. I don't have a favorite verse right now. I was thinking, is that 2 Corinthians 4:16? We do not Therefore, we do not lose heart. Our outer man, our outer man is decaying. Yeah. Yet our inner man is being renewed day by day. What a hope, right? Therefore, we don't lose heart. We don't lose heart. That's right. We're process people. That's good. Good. You got one more? Yeah. Okay. This This one might require some thought, but what is one piece of advice you give to your younger self? Stop caring what other people think. Go to him. Amen. Amen. Schedule time in the word. Amen. Amen. Awesome. Awesome. Wonderful. Again, thank you so much for this conversation. Yeah. Really enjoyed having us talking about this with y'all. Yeah. Thank you all for what you're doing. Yeah. No problem. Amen. Thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to hit that like button, subscribe, and leave us a comment below. We love chatting with you guys. We've got so much more content and powerful testimonies coming your way. So follow us on our socials. And until next time, stay safe. Keep speaking about the words of this life.