Episode 7

Hi, welcome to Words of This Life podcast. My name is Pablo and here we share real and impactful Christian stories from believers who love the Lord and his word. Through these testimonies, we want to showcase the virtues of the one who's called us out of darkness into his marvelous light. Virtues that are at work in everyday people, shaping their character, guiding their actions, and shining forth his life into the world. We're so happy you're here with us for this episode and let's get right into it. Hey guys, welcome back to the Words of This Life podcast. My name is Io and I'm here with my co-host Pablo and we have two special guests with us today. That's right. Uh David and Ree. Excited to be here. Great. Thank you for making the time to be here. Yeah, sure. This is going to be a fun episode. I I can already feel it. Yeah. So, uh today we're going to talk about uh knowing God and knowing God's will. Um, and we're just going to dive into David and Arisa's testimony and just glean the experiences that you guys have had and we'll see where the conversation goes. But I think it's always appropriate to just start from the beginning. Uh, how did you come to know the Lord? What kind even what kind of household did you grow up in? And, uh, when did you receive the Lord and when did he become real to you? So, cool. Yeah, I'll start. Uh I grew up my my father uh went to church. Um and I uh went with him. This was really a one of the closest experiences I had with my dad. Uh it was something that you only he and I shared. Then my my mom um didn't go to church. So uh this was really a time that uh I could get to know him. And uh so a lot of my association with church was was just with my dad was just this is an activity we do together. And and that was until I was about 11 or and I I began to realize that uh through my dad speaking to me that that this was uh a relationship that he didn't go to church because that was a thing that he did. He went to church to uh to know God in a deeper way and to know him in the other believers that he that we went to church with. Uh my dad I think he recognized that a lot of my pursuit towards you know going to church with him you know doing all doing all these things with him was based on my my love for him and and he was always very careful to not I would say take advantage of that to so when when I asked him what it meant to be saved he told me of But he was very careful not to pressure me in any way cuz I think he knew that if he told me that I should do this, I would do it for him. Sure. But not for the Lord. Um and and eventually I did feel that I needed that there was something that I I needed something. Uh I needed a savior. And uh the same was true of my baptism when I was I was baptized about a year later and you know uh a number of of of other believers had been baptized at at church and it was kind of going around and I was driving back from church one day and I said, "Dad, I think I should be baptized." And he said, "Okay." Asked me why. And I I said, "You know, I I watched the people get baptized this week and it was really powerful and I feel like I I need something like that." Um and he he said, "Okay." Okay. And then he he didn't mention it again. And then the next week I same thing drive back I said I I want to be baptized. He said okay I haven't brought it up because I don't want to I want it to be your choice. And so anyway that was kind of um that was a real experience of of the Lord for me. Uh and then I I kind of proceeded in Did you say you were 11? Uh yeah. By the time I was baptized I was 12. 12. Yeah. And I proceeded in a pretty good way until I went to college. Um, you know, skip forward a little bit. And, uh, when I got to college, you know, I I wouldn't say I fell away, but I I just let other things uh compete with the Lord for my time, for my interest. uh you know I would still go to go to church meetings but I would also you know I had a lot of friends who were very much not meeting um involved in a lot of drinking and things and and uh so I I I had this kind of I felt that I had a very good balance so to speak of well I'm I'm still doing something towards God but I'm also still doing something uh you know that's for me um you know and this kind of proceeded in this uh parallel structure until I uh I got to go on a trip um when through the university uh we went to Europe. We were you know studying we were studying World War II and European front and we got to spend some time in various you know battlefields and wow we felt very um felt very scholarly it felt very prestigious and um we did a lot of drinking and partying as you might expect also. Uh, and I was on my flight back uh from that trip and I um I was I was actually I was scrolling through pictures on my phone of all the all the very you know like all the cool academic sites you know the you know the the American cemetery there in Normandy and uh you know the there's a a monument to a a the Soviet soldiers the Soviet fallen in Berlin kind of a a monument of of conquering that's still there. It's uh um and well at least was then uh and I uh you know I was also looking at pictures that I had taken when I've been partying and stuff and I you know I I I just had this sense I I had this sense within me that it just it was it was like the bottom fell out. It was like missing a step on on the stairs and you just have this sense what if what if this is it? Like I just went on this great trip, you know, the university paid for it. Yeah. I I had this great time. I was so was with all my intelligent friends. We were doing having so much fun. You know, we're exercising our mind, you know. Uh we would later say our flesh was really getting let loose. It was it was great. But what if I peaked when I was 21? Yeah. And I I just had this I'm you know, we're over the Atlantic. I just had this sense of dread like how am I going to top this experience? Am I just going to be looking back to this for the rest of my life? And I had this realization or I had this sense uh and it was from God in my spirit. I I know now, but at the time I just said, "If there's anything real, it has to be God." Uh if there's if there's anything that's going to be a an ongoing a thoroughgoing an ongoing source of fulfillment and satisfaction, it has to be God. Wow. And so when I got back, I I you know, I I reached out to uh some some of the the people I went to church with. Yeah. And uh you know, I said, "I want God to be real to me." M and uh you know uh what some some one person said you know was very like oh wow I didn't realize you were having all you know this struggle and then another another dear brother said yeah I know that's he says something like I've been praying for this for a long time and so that's why things happen. Yeah, I do believe it. So, uh you know, um I uh completed school. Uh I went uh to a Bible school after that. Uh I just, you know, I didn't certainly didn't go to school with the intention of uh that being my post-graduate plans. But you know, the Lord really stirred in me um to give more of my time to to to give myself to really be uh to to be for him to stud to to study and to dedicate my time to know him. So I did that and uh you know I again I I felt like I kind of hit a plateau kind of like I did after I baptized. I was baptized and it it was very good. It was in a good spot. And I would say the next and really kind of the the last like watershed moment in my life was uh I I went um I went to love. Uh, I was helping that, you know, the church there was doing a a big event for their campus group and I I had gotten a chance to volunteer to go and and cook cook barbecue and we were we had been there, we had cooked all day and and I so I just kind of sat in the back of, you know, one of the like the last session and the the the college students there were speaking about Noah like the the the the weekend time had been about Noah, about knowing, you know, Noah had this vision that God was doing something and, you know, for however many years he he built the ark. There was no evidence of rain. He just had a speaking from God. This is happening. You need to build the ark. And as these, you know, 19, 20, 22 year olds are speaking, I'm God is speaking to me. Are you building an ark or are you are you Are you living in parallel again? Are you just happy to be, you know, happily married, have a nice job, and go to church? Are you happy to have is that enough for you or are you building the ark? Wow. Do you is do you go to church because you've seen that I am doing something or are you going to church because it feels nice for you? And wow. Yeah, it was it was pretty strong. Pretty strong, bro. I was, you know, it's a long drive back from Leach to Austin. And let me tell you, I was uh I was sitting in the back of this pickup truck. I mean, it was in the cab, but I was sitting in the I was sitting in the cab. We were pulling the the barbecue pit back and the brothers in the front are talking big old storm, and I'm just I'm praying and I'm just kind of I don't know what to say to God. I don't know what's But I Anyway, ever since then, the Lord has really taken me to a a different spot. Wow. And I hope I have not reached a plateau that he has to kind of shake me out of again. But Wow. Yeah, that's that's really kind of been my my experience. That's Yeah, that's I I enjoy hearing about the um the two instances where you've mentioned kind of two structures or two parallels, you know, like God sometimes, you know, the Lord calls us and then we we kind of like go to a parallel life away from his calling and then sometimes we merge again and event. Anyways, that's wonderful that the Lord in his mercy kind of called you. Yeah. And just that's really encouraging. Yeah. You know, I mean feel like I've monologued for a while now, but I just what one one thing is, you know, the Lord's calling to me like he's speaking to me in the airplane, speaking to me through those those brothers there in love. Those like the call when he spoke to me there on that airplane didn't lose its impact. What happened was I just kind of started to make like I carved out space for myself. Yeah. So I to me I feel when the Lord calls us uh this needs to remain that front and center. This needs to be you know even we need to consider you know praying that that our the call that the Lord gives to us would remain as the go as the the first fame in our pursuit. We're we're pursuing him not because it's the thing we've done in the past. We're pursuing him because he is calling us right now as he called us at whatever moment that was. Amen. Amen. That's wonderful. Yeah. should go on with Yeah. Um, so my uh I grew up also in a a Christian home of sorts. We were uh consider us we were Christians or Caster goers where Christmas and Easter was when we attended church. Um so first time I hear that. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so we attended pretty regularly when I was really young and then like uh sports and taxes and stuff like that. We just it was like okay Sundays are no longer for uh going to church. It was for football either watching or playing it. Um so anyways I go I always considered myself a Christian but um you know wasn't a regular church goer. Wasn't really taken that seriously. And about freshman year of high school time which I'm sure is the case for a lot of uh freshmen in high school. I started to uh do things some of the things that David was talking about in his college time where you know just started getting into drinking and partying and stuff like that and still would have called myself a Christian the whole time but uh was not the center of my life and I was living as if there was no God essentially um and was really enjoying it. Lots of fun and excitement and uh but yeah uh lack of God at that point but I was um part of a Christian ministry called Young Life. Um, basically everybody at my school was part of it. They were just like kind of the thing to do on Friday nights or Monday nights depending on your age group. Um, it was lots of fun. Like we'd go play sports, sing. Um, there always be a little message at the end. But um, they have the best uh, summer camps in the world in my opinion. So always always planning on going to camp that summer. Seventh grade, eighth grade, nth grade and 10th grade I went to camp. And at this point, I'm probably in the lowest point when it comes to the like just a a life full of the flesh. Um, and uh I'm not feeling guilty at all at this point. But, you know, looking back, I was like, yeah, that was I was in the pits. Um, and I heard the gospel for about the hundth time in my life. But that time, for some reason, God was like calling me out. He hearing about Christ and his dying on the cross. I just had the most stark realization that he like I could like feel his suffering and realize that that was because of how I'm living right now and just felt so much guilt and like oh how like what I'm doing today and what I'm living for today is the reason he had to go through this. Um, and so it it was this experience that night where the the weight of my sin. I felt it for the first time. And then also that night is the first like I felt it all lifted like he paid the price. And I just had a very um emotional night and experience of receiving Christ as my savior for the first time. Um, and knew that something had to change in my life. So, I went to my uh kind of mentor there and said, "Hey, so like what do I do now? Like I know like I I've confessed to him kind of how I've been living. He might have already known all that, but I told him like I know I can't I've got this girlfriend. I probably need to break up with her." Like all that stuff. And he probably told me a lot of things, but the one thing that he told me that stuck with me was you need to uh read the Bible every day, every morning. So, uh, and he started doing that with me, but I I really took it to heart and maybe one or two days since then, since I was 16, that hasn't happened. But basically, since I was 16, I've been able to read the Bible every morning. Uh, that's just testimony. Yeah. And, you know, the Lord just had a ton of mercy on me because it is so easy to uh have that kind of camp high and then go back to your old life two weeks later. But the Lord just had a way of uh kind of replacing my friends. Like I stopped hanging out with them. Like it was like a hard cut off, but he got me other friends who were believers who had similar experiences within a week or two. And so my social life became affiliated with Christ. And um also we really wanted to pursue the Lord together. And what that meant for us was, you know, we instead of hanging out late every night on the weekends and even sometimes the weekdays, it was we're going to go to the coffee shop in the morning when it opens and we're going to read our Bibles or read some Christian books. Um, and I just I was not a reader before then, but uh like I was a cliffotes or whatever we used back then, but um I just fell in love with the Bible and Christian truth and doctrine. And uh not exaggerating to say that we'd pro I'd probably spend 4 hours every morning before school cuz we get there at 5:00 when it opened and then school started at 9:00 just reading stuff. 10th grade. 11th grade. 10th. Yeah. Going into 11th started 11th grade. 11th grader reading 4 hours a day. Yes. It started with less. It was more chatting and then reading together. But um yeah, it's like the most responsible thing I've ever ke Well um anyways I just I just was voracious reader because the truth was fascinating to me like I just this experience just happened to me and I want to learn everything about this Jesus and the Bible and I want to understand it and there's a big looming question right after that too which is like okay what church do I go to like what's there's all these denominations what's the right one I asked my mentor that and he didn't tell me thankfully like at his church or something he was just like ah it's tough question I just had a lot of questions bubbling up as I was trying to understand the Bible. Um, and I think by the end of high school, so all that stuff was great. Uh, but it also by the end of my senior year, I had lots of opinions about what the Bible was about. Was sorry, was most of the Bible reading alone or was it in groups with your parents or with It was a lot of it. Um, I'd be like with the a couple of my friends that I mentioned earlier, but we'd kind of be all reading our own thing. Sometimes we'd be reading the same thing and having more fellowship about it. But I went from like reading like Crazy Love by Francis Chan, some like classic Christian books and like Bonhaofer to then like a systematic theology book and like you know Calvin and stuff like that. Um, and so like I uh it was all great in a sense, but also like I said made me super I was like a hardcore Calvinist by the end of high school and also was a firm believer in the charismatic like movement and gifts of the spirit. Um, you know that they're active today. People are still doing healings and miracles and that kind of stuff. Not so much like Pentecostal but charismatic. The nuance doesn't matter right now. like point is came to college full of uh my own opinions about what the Bible meant. Um and in college I uh met some uh Christians who really helped me to understand uh what the Bible's actually talking about. Uh cuz I was picking out these kind of side doctrines and really honing them in. It's like I meet with my buddies and it's like hey so do you realize like God's will is the only will like you know your will really isn't a factor like I'm just like picking arguments with people with my Calvinism like yeah so so darn but um you know that's not the the central purpose that God is trying the message he's trying to convey in the word. Sure. Yeah. And I got a lot of help to see like what is Christ what is God trying to do today? Um, and that just changed my life. It was like I just had this kind of puzzle pieces of the Bible. I knew some verses that supported my doctrines, but like the full picture. I couldn't quite see it. Um, and I just really got a lot of help to see like these lines in the Bible and like wow what it's talking about and what he's been doing from like see things that kind of like little seeds planted in Genesis and then like they're picked up on throughout and then Christ comes as the fulfillment of these things but they're still being taken all the way to Revelation. And um I just I probably was in more like Bible studies in college than in classes um just cuz it was like fascinating to me. So, off. Um, anyways, I'm probably spending too much time on all this, but uh college was awesome. Uh, there were some it was ups and downs, but that I feel like that's kind of a theme through it. And, um, yeah, I also actually ended up going to a kind of postgrad Bible school um, after working for a bit. Um, almost was going to go to Germany to um, be like a missionary, serve the Lord there. um that didn't end up working out. Um but I fully believe like the Lord wanted me here where I am now and that was only like a few years ago and now I'm married, happily married man and uh newly married man. And uh yeah, I think that's a good like overview I suppose. Yeah. Yeah. One thing that uh you guys both mentioned, and I'm only going to ask you guys this just so the viewer knows, these two uh were podcasters as well at one point. And their their podcast, which is it was called What does the Bible say about that? It's now the Bible podcast. Check it out on Apple. Put a link in the box. Oh gosh. But your guys' podcast really helped me when I was in when I was in a student. Um I I the truth that you guys enjoyed you definitely gave it to like gave it to me through those podcast episodes. But you guys both mentioned that you know fellowship in college um gave you kind of like a truth um some vision of the Bible that has ruled your life. Mhm. And you know, if it's needing having the the bottom taken out from you or being opinionated but also kind of confused. Yeah. Um what happened? You know, what what truths what part of the Bible was like just so striking that you had these 180 changes? Mhm. Yeah. It's uh there are lots of truths that really like jump out when you said that, but I think one specifically is kind of what I was hinging at earlier about like the central focus of the Bible. Like there's lots of interesting doctrines and verses you can glink from the Bible like, you know, is baptism via immersion or sprinkling. There's kind of a hint of sprinkling in Titus, but most of them seem like immersion in Acts and in Matthew and or you know the predestination stuff like Romans 9 is Calvinist favorite chapter and it's most confusing to anyone who's honest I think. But um yeah realizing so one of the truths really stuck out to me was this thought that God's purpose is not to save sinners period like as like that's the central focus just rescuing people from damnation. Um which really kind of was maybe my central truth. I mean, I talked a lot about predestination, but that was like the core of the gospel to me. But realizing that God actually created man with a purpose in mind before he had even sinned. Uh, and that purpose being his desire to be united to man, to have a relationship with man, and to transform him into this creature that's um not just an animal on on the on a low plane, but someone that can be with him for eternity um to give us immortality, as Paul says, and eternal life. and um realizing there's more than just the cross and my repentance from to be saved and like now I should give money to church and be a good person to preach the gospel like oh God has something past the the you know Goltha that he wants to do in me. Um that was really transformative for me of like not just understanding the Bible but direction for my life like oh this is what I need to be doing or I need to be involved in this somehow. Mhm. Yeah. Big truth. Yeah. Yeah. Uh well, you know, the thing that like I mentioned, the thing that really that like that I missed the step on I missed the step on the stairs was uh this question of meaning was and you know that touches on what Reese just said, but you know I one of the things that really touched me was that I had seen people that I had gone to church with who I knew had meaning in their life And I thought I had meaning when I was doing all of these both you know academic I like to emphasize it wasn't all just partying but um you know I was I I thought that I was I thought they had they had meaning because you know their meaning is church and their meaning is God and that's wonderful good for them but my meaning is this other thing and that's fine. And when I suddenly had this realization that there is a there is a an a terminus there's a finite end date of any meaning that is that is derived from the earth I realized that meaning has to be a lasting meaning could only be with God something someone eternal and so you know people what I saw and this is coming back to your question about truth is I I realized kind of retroactively I had I had unconsciously registered these people are touching the reality of some really high and common verses among us you know like Galatians 2:20 and Philippians 1 for to me to live is Christ and my you know my spirit had kind of absorbed even without my conscious recognition that that person that person that I see he's full of meaning Because Christ is his life. His life is not just for Christ. Christ has become his life. And so that's what that's what the purpose of that person's existence is. It's the purpose of my existence. And my meaning is going to be unfulfilled and finite and temporal. And I'll be just be chasing the next high until I accept this is the meaning. And so yeah, the truth that Christ that we were created, that Christ would fill us, he would become our life, he would become how we live, how we interact with one another would be Christ. Yeah. Wow. It's really good, man. Yeah. I I was I wanted to go back to um David in your testimony, the moment in love when you you heard, you know, about Noah from those those young believers there and uh what did you what was the summary kind of message there from from God uh in that moment? What do you think? You mentioned, you know, God speaking to you, are you here for me or are you here for yourself or you here for me? Yeah. How the has God built up on that revelation? Uh has there been more to that revelation that started there? And what what what do you think really God was hinting at there? Yeah, that as well. Yeah. You know, uh well, I mean, so we look at the at Noah and Noah, God says, "Surely I'm going to flood the earth." And uh so build an ark uh so for the preservation of yourself, your family, and life. Uh, and that vision governed how Noah lived. So, everybody else was doing something. I I've often wondered, this might be off topic, but was I mean, was did Noah still farm or like what was he doing for food? I mean, like it does mention I think 120 years I think that was the eat something. Yeah. But, uh, he was building the ark. But, um, yes. So, that was that was the purpose of Noah's life was based on that vision. And that vision, you know, certainly that would save Noah, but it was about s preserving life on the earth, preserving the animals, preserving his family. So, the thing that really spoke to me that God spoke to me. I want to be clear, this wasn't like an audible voice, but it was pretty clear in my spirit. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a that's a Reese level experience. Uh but is are you are you doing church for for yourself? Are you are you going because it makes you feel like uh well this is a thing that good people do and the fact that I do it means I'm a good person. This is uh you know this is a place where I have some community some social interaction and people like to do that. Or are you doing this because I God am doing something. I am I want people who are building the ark. Yeah. I want people who are living according to the vision of what I've said in the Bible that that I want I want a people I want a church that represents me on the earth. So are you just among them? Are you just among the people that are living for that or are you living for that? Wow. Mhm. I don't know if that answers your question, but yeah. Uh, no, that's that's good. I I think maybe I don't know all believers, but most believers have that moment. You know, you you find Christ, but eventually you you find like what is Christ after? Yeah. Like it happened to me, too. I mean, I don't want to this is about you all. I don't want to share too much, but um I was I was in the book of Ephesians and then I just realized after reading it and being in it, this is years ago. I just realized, man, when you kind of like take a peek in God's heart and you just see what's in his heart, it's all the church. Like, I just realized it's it's every time it's the church, right? There's something there. You know, he he reveals himself to you, but when he wants to reveal something else is the church. So, anyways, how about you, Ree? When did that is there a moment I don't know that when like Yeah. We went from Christ to what Christ wants, you know? Yeah. Well, I think um I'll answer that, but I think it related like it's I think more I feel like more believers and this was certainly the case for me and this what all of my friends and I would ask all the time the typical question and you know there's a famous book I forget like a purpose- driven life what's his name uh anyways very famous Christian book Warren yeah Warren yeah many Christians ask what is God's purpose for my life what is God's will for my life what am I supposed to do I supposed to be a doctor? What college do I go to with my question in high school? And uh what you know, it's like am I a missionary or this or that? And the question never really dawned on me until it was kind of presented to me that like what does God want? What is God interested in in doing? Um and really once you figure that out, then it's really it's a lot easier to figure out what do I do now? Like if I figure out God's interested in building a giant ark on the earth, I should go help Noah like the structure of this thing. That's a pretty simple like I can figure out God's will for my life. It's whatever over there. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I'm over there if I'm like he his the will for Noah is the ark. I need to go farm. Like I'm going to be dead, you know? Um so I did have a moment in college, but it was like just a a a whole change in the question I was asking. of like what is God's will for my life to what is God interested in? What is he doing? And the church being kind of I think the the answer there with a lot of nuance and details around that. But yeah, I think one thing that's interesting is that you actually posed that question to me at one point. Really? Yeah. Uh it was it wasn't anyway you just said you most people say what is God's purpose for my life? But then you were like, "Let's rephrase like let's just edit that question. What is God's purpose?" Full stop. Yeah. And I remember that was like a what? Yeah. I've never thought about that, you know. Um but anyway, um so you guys you guys saw something when you were in college and you guys both decided uh you know, seminary, uh Bible school, some kind of like program to give yourselves to the Lord and what he's doing. That that was what the Lord was leading you to do at that point. But then you get to a point where you leave that program and now you're back with a greater sense of independence. uh what did those first years look like uh leaving the program and how did the Lord continue to train you to to hear his voice and know his will and follow where he was leading you you know yeah uh you're right that was a uh you use the word that was a greater sense of independence and that was definitely my experience you know uh uh for myself I um and also Ree actually we both came back to where we'd been before. You know, we both came back to Austin. We'd come from here. Um and so there was definitely, you know, there was a lot of a lot of pre-existing, you know, not necessarily not negative things, but uh things that you you know, relationships and and and people that you don't have the thought like I didn't have the thought that I needed to check with God about. I I know how to interact with this person. I know how to interact with this situation because I've done it before. And uh that kind of that is a it's a real learning. It's a ongoing learning for me that we need to be actively checking with God about everything about how we how we interact with other people. Believe it or not, God, the sovereign one, hasn't a plan for for all of our interactions. And yeah, it's a good thing he's infinite because there's a lot of interaction. But but God has an intention in how we interact with co-workers, with people around us, with our spouses, and we can check with him or we can just try to operate on our own. And anyway, all that to say, uh, that was a big point of learning. I had some I had some failures when I first got back and I I had, you know, I had some existential thoughts about, did I, why did I do this? I spent two years, I gave myself to the Lord and now I'm just as bad as I was before. I'm worse than the Benny thing. Uh and uh but I feel like that time that adjustment from a kind of a structured environment, a specific consecration that I had given myself uh to be under to be for the Lord uh and now in a a to consecrate in a much broader environment uh really in a sense it's easier to consecrate yourselves when you are only have a structure around you. Uh but when you need to when you need to consecrate yourself and no one but you and the Lord are there to check on it, it's it's uh it takes more it takes a deeper realization of what the Lord is doing. So that was something that the Lord kind of worked on me in the first two or so two or three years that I was uh after I came back. Um but yeah. Yeah. And I mentioned this briefly in my uh testimony part, but um I was actually pretty I was planning on going to Germany after I finished actually. Um that was after uh you know the question what does God want me to do? What's over my life is still a legitimate question like building the ark is not as clear as in Noah's day, right? Like where are we going to be doing the building and um in what capacity? So after a lot of, you know, prayer and consideration and then fellowship with different Christians that I really respected both here and in Germany that I'd gotten connected to. It just seemed like that was where the Lord was taking me. Um, and so I just like it was a little kind of a scary thought transition. I I know as much German as anyone who's done Duolingo for six months would know. And um it was just like I don't like it wasn't like I'm excited and thrilled about a foreign adventure. It was like that's where I felt like God wanted me even though it wouldn't be comfortable or nice. Um but back to the thought of like what is God's will for himself once I think you're aligned with that you have a clear like understanding and and controlling vision revelation like this is what it's all about. then God's leading you in the little things where you would be what you would do um are less uh important I suppose or even you know that's right Paul he led Paul to Jerusalem and he got imprisoned and then you know was stuck in Roman imprisonment for years and it's like was it God's will for him to go to Jerusalem like well he wrote you know Philippians and Ephesians or maybe not Philippians kosh anyways he like wrote some of the greatest books in the New Testament in that time. Um, so I think all I'm trying to say is uh God is perfectly within his right to lead us down a road that causes us to be hit by an 18-wheeler. Um, and like if that was his will, like like the point is not getting to the destination, it's being in in the the in what God's doing on the earth. So yeah, I felt like I was to go to Germany. a lot of things happened where that just became impossible and it was really devastating for me for a while. Um, but looking back on it now, I just seen the Lord's been able to do a much deeper work in parts of my soul that weren't open to him at the time. Yeah. Um, and also I got to meet my lovely wife in the in the meantime. Um, so yeah, that I' there's been a lot of learnings on my part of like what does it actually mean to be in this like vision of what God's doing? It means like a lot of suffering and a lot of like feeling like you're going the right way and then getting hit and then um but God's doing his central work that whole time and that's really what he's interested in. Not putting me in the right country or the right job. Yeah. Yeah. you know on that just uh you know like you mentioned when looking back you're seeing the Lord was able to do so much stuff in you and obviously arrange for your your dear wife yeah for which are very happy uh you know I I have consistently been touched by uh two verses at the end of Genesis you know I'm going to share but it's uh you know so Jacob arrives in in Egypt and he says as uh and he uh Joseph brings him before before Pharaoh and and says to him, you know, he introduces uh Pharaoh and Pharaoh kind of doesn't really seem to know what to say. So he says, you know, how how old are you? And and and Jacob says, you know, uh few and evil have been the days of my sojouring and they have not attained to the days of my fathers. And but then in the next chapter, he is blessing the sons of Joseph and he says, "The angel, the God who has shepherded me all the days of my life until this day, bless the boys." And so the boys, you know, we have this in our in our daily experience. It may seem that we are in the few and evil, but we look back and we realize that that has been God's shephering to us. He has shepherded us all of the days, including the ones we thought were few and evil were also God shephering to us. Yeah. So, a lot of times we are stuck only in the present. And of course, we're we're finite. We're stuck in time. This is the thing that we can see and it's it sucks. Yeah. But we but we realize and the Lord is building faith in us. Yeah. Through our experiences that in the midst of those things, we are being shepherded. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I've always really appreciated those those that pairing of verses. That's really good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just this came up in in another podcast um uh episode, but you know, really what I want to say is likeyou helped me a lot during those years when you felt like you were being hit by an 18-wheeler. And uh I heard uh before it's somebody told me it's like sometimes the Lord has a a heart to gain the worker and even transform the worker. Um and that was your experience. But you know, just like you said, while um Jacob or Israel at the time said those days were evil, he was able to bless someone. I felt like you you blessed me during my college years and I didn't know you were like suffering. It's it's the craziest thing. There was this uh experience when we were skiing. I don't know if you remember this. Oh yeah. Yeah. The first time I was skiing, oh my gosh, it was so bad. It was so bad. Like I kept falling, but Reese stayed. you stay and you kept picking me up. I kept falling. You kept picking me up. Everyone else was just Yeah. going. But that meant a lot to me because when I was at that trip, I I felt like a an impostor. Like I wasn't supposed to be there. And honestly, each time you pick me up, it it felt like the Lord was saying, "I'll keep going." Like these brothers will keep you keep you going. They'll pick you up. Um uh but anyway, like and then we had those those uh those uh Bible studies towards the end of my senior year about church history. Mhm. And honestly that set the course of my life. I saw that I'm in this like divine history. Wow. But um in a earlier podcast we said that you know you don't know what happens on the residual domino effect if you say yes to the Lord in the moment. But while he was gaining, he was also gaining me too. And it was like Anyway, that I'm just I'm just enjoying what you guys are sharing. But that's real. Yeah, that's real. Anyway, amen. Um, you know, a lot of our viewers, I think some, a good number, I think, are in the early 20, mid20s, early 30s, you know, like either finishing school and facing some decisions in life, you know, three of which I just wanted to see if you have any experiences on these. where to live, where to marry, what job to take. You know, I saw these three. If if if Texas and X sales are the answer, there are first everyone moved to Austin. No. Um follow Lord. But yeah, on these three topics, uh these truths that the Lord has revealed in your life along the way, who he is, what he's doing on the earth, how has how has the Lord Yeah. when you face these decisions where to live, where not to live, you know, how has the Lord been involved with these truths operating in you about what the Lord is doing? There's really I don't think there's a simple answer. Um because God exists outside of time and doesn't usually speak audibly to us. Um I think there's a couple of like key principles that have been like really central in my life when I'm trying to make those kinds of decisions. Um, one of the first is, you know, the Lord. If we come to the Lord, uh, for these big decisions and like those are the main times. We're kind of like I mentioned the cresteraster goer. We're kind of like the that type of scenario for wanting to interact with God. Like I'll come to God when there's a big decision to be made and then I'll put him to the side until the next one comes up. Um, and a lot of times if you're that kind of a Christian, which I have been several times, it's like you find he's pretty uh mute at that point. Like God's hiding himself from me. Um, so I think a key for this is having a regular time with the Lord where we are getting these little speakings. And by when speakings, I mean like shining light on a verse in the Bible or putting someone on your heart when you're praying to then pray for them and like learning tag because God in my experience isn't usually audible and clear, but there's like a sense within and there's light shining and there's just direction where it's like I have there's a verse in Romans that it's called Roman or Paul talks about a life and peace as like a guiding principle. Yeah. Um, so learning to kind of get this sense with the Lord in our regular mundane lives really helps with the bigger decisions later. It's good. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I totally agree. Uh um, you know, I it's it's just on your point, it's important to remember that the Lord himself is a person. Totally. And if you know if I have a you know if I if I only speak to you when I need something it's going to you know that that might make me feel a little uh used. Oh yeah. So you know uh I well I won't expose too much about uh my my my courtship with my now dear wife. Um but you know I I felt that the Lord was putting this person on my heart and I I did not I I didn't know what to do. So I did uh I did so I did one thing and I I went and I I shared with a brother that I was very close with and I said hey brother this I don't know what this means. Uh, I mean, this is, you know, this she's she's younger than me. She's my my wife is five years younger than me. Um, and you know, that's, you know, I'm 26, she's 21. That's a big gap right now. I mean, now that I'm 36 and she's 31, it doesn't feel as sick. But, uh, uh, at this school at the time, yes, she was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's she was had just completed her junior year. Uh, you know, I mean, she's still got a year of school. This is not the the regular timing of things. Uh what is happening here? The technical rule is divide by two add eight. She is just in the range. All right. Sorry. Keeping but so anyway I shared with this brother um that I was very close with and I said I don't know what to do. I I like and I kind of expected him to say yeah you should stop thinking about that. Uh but what he said was we should pray about this. So we prayed. Uh and then he said, "Now you need to pray by yourself a lot." And so and and then I did this and I you know later on I I said, "You know, it's been this period of time I've been praying. I still feel this way about this woman." And I and he said, "Well, then we we met again. We prayed again." And he said, "You know, really, we're just doing what John says." So John in his epistle he tells us that uh he says that I'm writing to you because I want you to have fellowship with me with with the John the writer and he says and indeed our fellowship is with the father. M so he was this brother kind of without giving me the the background was bringing me into this simultaneous fellowship where I'm connecting to God personally but I'm also connecting to God through the other believers and so there's a fellowship between us there's a fellowship between God and myself and then together we're going to God so a lot of times in my experience this is how the Lord Lord speaks is in when we involve kind of all of this these aspects of both his speaking through himself the head directly to us and his speaking through the other members. Yeah. Um, you know, of course, you know, we we should be, you know, wise about who we open our situation to, of course, but uh I in my experience, a lot of times the Lord has, in a sense, it's like he's reserved his feelings, kind of held back his his response until I've been open with at least one other member because, you know, God's view is that we we his church are we are a corporate body. There's there is a relatedness between the members and if it's if I could get you know all my answers quotequote just from the head then I would never need to bring the real me the real situation to the other brothers and so the Lord in this way I feel that he he is waiting for us in a in many cases to to open things to him directly and then to open them to the a member of his body also and to pray together in that way. So, I mean, I'm not trying to make a method out of this, but this has been my experience, you know, uh uh I one more smaller example. I I I took a promotion at work several couple years ago now. And um I I was really kind of hesitant about it cuz the job that the lower position I had had given me a kind of a a shortened schedule so I could really I had a whole day on Mondays where I could be with be with the brothers and you know get into the word, pray. It was was it was great and I would have to give that up to take this other position. And I opened it to a, you know, a group that was meeting at my home at that time on every Tuesday night. And I said, you know, this position, I think I'm going to get it if I apply for it, you know, and we prayed together. And nobody said, well, you should definitely do it or you should definitely not do it. But afterwards, I we after our prayer, I had some peace like you said. I had I had a feeling of peace as I considered the position, I considered the application. I just had this feeling of peace like go forward, do it. And that I I really took that as the Lord's answer through the prayer of you know this group that I was close with. Yeah. I I want to add to the um because I you reminded me of experience I had when I was uh I was working after college before going to the Bible program and um I just got this the sweetest job out of college. Like it wasn't a glor glamorous job when I got it but then we got acquired. there's all this growth and then I was able to get promoted really quickly to where I was doing really well and but I I committed like I want to go to this program once I've paid off my student loans and it was like 8 months into the job I paid off the loans it was like done I'm free to go and uh there's a verse I think it's in Jeremiah I'm wrong word says uh the heart is deceitful above all things who can know it Um, and so I just appreciate what David said. It's like uh the being in Christian community and with brothers and sisters that uh we can pray with and be held accountable with is crucial because our heart is easily deceived and deceives us. Yeah. Um because there is the Lord in our in our being that he has the ability to speak to us, but we also have this evil fleshly heart that he's trying to transform that can be deceiving us. And so I'm have this great job and then all these excuses come up. You know, if I work another year, I could pay my way through this program myself and have a little bit stored up and like why wouldn't I do that? Like it makes sense to just, you know, even though I committed like once my loans are paid, I'm gone. The love of money is a root of all evils, right? And I was saying this noble reason how I would use this job for the next year, but really I just liked making money. Um, and I was with this brother who I'd been fellowshipping with this whole time and just he was able to speak kind of a frank word to me that made it really clear and like shine light into my deceitful heart and it was done and I quit the job went and the Lord was very gracious to give me a little outward sign in this moment cuz uh that company got acquired by a private equity group and the whole Austin office was gone in two months after I quit. It was just like the Lord I think he did that just for my sake to show me. Yeah, you should follow pastor spirit and wow. Yeah, that's good. So, do you two have a like if you're going through a situation that needs some fellowship? Do you have a go-to person that you have a person that is a brother or Yep. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's changed over the years. There's always I feel like I find that so good that you have someone that immediately comes to head that you can think of going to. Mhm. What would you say to a young believer who maybe doesn't have someone, you know, maybe is a, you know, Sunday going to church and it's just there and maybe parents are not believers or whatever and they don't have someone. Well, how would you or or they even find it hard to open up, right? I don't know if you guys were like that at one point where it was hard to open up, but like what tips do you have? Because if you don't have that fellowship, Yeah. you're living like a 50% Christian life, you know? But anyway, our fellowship was with one another and with the father like David said. Yeah. Yeah,I I just briefly say I mean I I've always found it more helpful to fellowship with someone who's a little bit older than me, a little more experienced and seems to have been around the block a time or two with the Lord. There's just a lot of like uh wisdom and rich like deposits of the spirit saints where that God's been working in for years, you know. Um, and a lot of times it's a lot easier to approach them like going to a fellow believer and like opening up that that was always harder to me. But like going to my youth minister in high school or you know someone is kind of more of in a mentor role. It was always like they're looking for that like they want to shepherd Christians. So I think that's a great place to start. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean my first thought when you were you were talking Pablo is I it's really good uh it's really good to bring that matter to the Lord you know if you are I mean I know it has seems like a copout answer to say that you should pray about it but in reality this is you know that's certainly this is something the Lord wants you know we see throughout especially the writings of Paul the emphasis on the body and of the the other members of considering the other members you know Corin Thians he talks about this in Philippians he talks about this and he says so this is definitely on God's heart and I would say if you if you offer a prayer like this Lord who can I be joined to Lord give me someone else that I can pray with certainly that is something that's a prayer God is really excited to answer uh but and you know how how can you open to someone well I mean certainly I I it's I have that's something I I struggle with um even to the present. But one of the things that really helps me is like the brother I was thinking about I won't say who that is but the brother who I was thinking about uh I know that whatever I share with him is he's going to take seriously and he's going to pray about it. M um so knowing that the knowing the other person that you're speaking to has this kind of view that that our lives should be for for Christ in the church. Yeah. It means that whatever you you bring to them is that's that's how they're going to take it is that and they're they're going to pray about it. They're going to take it seriously and they'll pray in a uh way that will join your problem. Yeah. to the Lord and his the Lord the spirit the supply of the spirit to to you in your situation. Yeah, that's really good. Just I agree with you know both of your points. Re someone older to me that's so true. you know it has to be someone has more experience um and then uh to pray about it and I and I and I feel that you know one of you mentioned of that you know when you go to the Lord and it's only when you have needs it's you almost get a non-response right yeah I feel like with members of the body it's the same thing you don't just want to go then you know you want to be known by someone a way that is continual you know like totally I have this practice whenever there's a conference at church or something I always find this brother and I just have a meal with him or something, you know, just so that whether there's something going on or not, sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't. There's still the the just the continual fellowship, you know, like he just knows me, he sees my face, like, okay. And then when something's going on, then it's not as awkward, you know, bring something up, you know? So, for sure. Yeah. I think anyways, I find that that I I don't think I would be here if it wasn't for those relationships that you guys are mentioning. Yeah. Um, you guys both mention something in your decision- making that might be foreign to the viewer. Um, but when people uh are making decisions, they usually make a pros and cons list. They might make a costbenefit analysis, you know, matrix or uh they might look at the risk, their assumptions and all these things. But you guys talked about having peace. What is what does that mean? Where where did that term come from? And I was reminded when you were saying the procon list. There's a verse and David you can keep me honest here. I think it's in second Corinthians. It's either that or first. Um I think it's second but Paul is talking about hey it's somewhere else but he's talking about uh how there was a door open to him in Macedonia meaning like God has opened up a an avenue for the gospel to be preached. Um then it says Paul says but I had no peace. He said, "No peace in my spirit." Uh because Titus, my brother, had not come yet to give news about the Corinthians. But point is like environmentally the right move was to go forward into Macedonia and preach the gospel. But Paul inwardly in his spirit, it says, had no peace. Yeah. Um, and so I think that, yeah, the the practical list building, which I am guilty of doing that all the time, and it's actually really smart to do in practical situations, but with the Lord doesn't always work. Um, but there's like a it's hard to describe, but when you when you feel it or you know it, you know it. Um, peace is just a sense of like I, you know, I'm at peace. I People know peace. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Um, but that you can be praying about something and and I think it's also helpful. Sorry, there's another verse comes to mind where when Paul's going into uh into Europe for the first time. I think it's in Acts 16. It says he was going into I think Asia and the spirit stopped him. Yep. He was going into, you know, somewhere else and this spirit of Jesus prevented him. Yep. It's like Paul was moving but the Lord was able to stop him. So he was on the move but responsive. He wasn't just praying in a room until he got an answer. Um, it's like as we move, as we're doing going in a direction, there needs to be a a continual kind of uh conversation with the Lord. We're talking about like we're always in an open fellowship with him. So that whenever we feel that sense of lack of peace, maybe that's easier to feel than peace is the lack of peace. Then you know I'm off course. I need to turn. The Lord's turning me. The Lord can move a boat, right? That's moving. Turn it. That's moving. The static boat's really difficult to turn. Classic metaphor. Yeah. Yeah. Uh well, you know, I I kind of have a little log jam of different things I want to say, but uh you know, for the sake of time, uh you know, uh I I really appreciate this definition of peace. Um, so 2 Corinthians, sorry, 2 Thessalonians 3:16, uh, Paul concludes that that epistle with, uh, he says, "Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace continually in every way. The Lord be with you." And you know, uh, there peace is uh, equated to the presence of the Lord. M. So when when we experience uh just like Reese was saying, when we're taking a step, we know if the Lord is with us or not by the turmoil in us or the complete lack of it. Yeah. And when we when we sense the stillness, that's a real indication the Lord is with us. He as the Lord of peace is is with us. And you know just an interesting story on on um along with uh the the door in in uh second uh first second Corinthian second you're right that Titus you got me um is uh you know in in Mark Mark 1 uh the Lord has this you know he he's he's in a village he's doing he does a miracle and then he uh he's rises up very early while it was still night he went out and went away and Simon And those with him hunted for him and they found him and said to him, "All are seeking you." And you know, you would think this is such a great Jesus. This is the thing. Didn't you come to for the people to see you? And but the Lord the Lord went away and he prayed and he said and after he prayed, he said, "Situation's great, but uh we have to go." He said to them, "Let us go elsewhere into the nearby towns that I may preach there also because for this purpose I came out." And so, you know, we we don't follow God according to the environment. We follow God according to his speaking. You know, I can't tell you why the Lord did not stay where he was and preach to the the whole the whole town was seeking him. This was great. Yeah. Yeah. Peter hunted for him. I like that verb. Uh Uh and but God but the father told him we need to go to another village and the Lord just said that's right that's what we're going to do. So in our in all of our choices, we need to, you know, we need to consider like we were talking about uh the fellowship, the prayer, the the the peace, the feeling that the Lord is satisfied with our choice. And you know, the environment is the environment. The Lord, it's very easy for the Lord to uh to all to change the environment so easily. He's God. Yes. The thing that he won't intervene on is the human heart. Yeah. He for for him to for him to just you know uproot you know to say to this so easy yeah so easy so easy he's the creator but for he has said I'm I'm not going to to command the human heart to love me wow so that is the thing that we need to that is the thing that he is waiting on us is for our choice to love yeah you know I like this this point of peace I think it's so sweet that for for us to learn to do things but guided by peace I want I wonder if If this is related to this question on Pisa, you shared with us on a call we had earlier that at one point you were considering moving to another city. Yeah. To to strengthen the the community of the church there and eventually you didn't go or something like that I think. Is was there this peace experience there like having or not having peace in that? Can you share a little bit about your experience? Yeah. uh you know, we uh my my wife and I uh we had been we' prayed for a while about this matter about uh you know, the the church community here in Austin is really strong. You know, there's uh there's a specific city that we knew that had, you know, a much smaller group and that um you know, could we go? I mean, you know, we have some flexibility and uh you know, we went and visited and and you know, we as we were before we were going, as we were there, we of course were praying together and we prayed with the the believers there as well. And of course, they you know, they wanted us to come, but you know, uh they said, you know, we'd we can't tell you, you know, it's it has to be from from from the head. And you know, we we got back, we we felt very strongly that we needed to go and visit. And when we got back, I I didn't I didn't really have any feeling to go. Uh and I, you know, I I wondered, you know, is this just my choice? Is this like, oh, my my personal preference is to stay where I am, and I'm not allowing the Lord to speak. M but I we continued to pray and you know I was really confirmed by my wife having the same feeling that we had we we definitely needed to go and we wouldn't have peace until we visited there. Yeah. But once we once we came back we just had peace to remain where we are. And you know in a sense it's kind of like why why did the Lord have us go? I that's that's not my business. But that's right. But we went and we had peace to be there and we had peace to come back and we have had peace to remain in Austin. And that's you know you know one of the things that I and I know we're short on time here but I I I Okay. I love this verse uh in uh another verse Genesis about the matter of the going to get Rebecca. Yeah. and and and uh the servant there says you know I'm taking her back. Yeah. Is this and then Laban Laban he says he says the matter the fate is from Jehovah. Yeah. We cannot answer you good or bad. And this is really our this is how we make choices in in the Christian life is we realize if this is of God it's not a matter of right and wrong yes or no. It's it's question of is it of God or is it not? Amen. Yeah. And that's and God is expressed by peace in us, right? Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Amen. Wow. Well, I think we're almost there, huh? Time. Yeah. Should we do these questions, these last questions quick? Your your rap fire questions. We like to end each episode with a few rapid fire questions. So, just the first thing that comes to mind. Um, I'll just try to get through it really quickly, but favorite book in the Bible and why. Um, I'll go with second Corinthians. I have not heard that. Okay, go ahead. Uh, it's like the most autobiographical kind of book. A lot of in-depth stuff about Paul's life. And my favorite verse, uh, chapter 8, verse 9 is in there. Okay. Everyone can go look it up afterwards. Yeah, that was going to be the second question. You ruined it, but anyway. Uh, yeah, I'll go. I'll go John. Um just uh the the depth of what is revealed about the Lord. Um uh you know the real reading if you just read through John 17 viewers out there just read through John 17 prayerfully and it I mean wolf what a what a chapter. All right that's good. Um it's and the next one is the verse. Yeah. Favorite verse in Oh gosh. Uh I knew it was coming. Yeah. Um, apparently yours is John 17. No, I I mean the thing is I can't say I understand John 17. So uh you know I don't know what what all um I'm stalling here. Um yeah uh probably 1 Corinthians 1:30 uh that that of God you are in Christ Jesus. Yeah, wonderful deep verse. Well brothers, thank you so much. Wow. What's up? What was your favorite verse today? 2 Corinthians 89. What does it say? It talks about like a definition of grace. Christ who being rich became poor in order that we might become rich in him. I mean uh big question is what was he rich in prior that we're becoming rich in now? Anyways for that go to his podcast with anger. We're going to we're going to put a link in the description so you can listen to that answer. But anyways it's been great to have you brothers. Thank you so much Reese and David. Thanks for the invite. And anyways, follow us, comment, like, and uh we'll we'll be back next week with another episode. Subscribe button. Smash the subscribe button like Reese said. All right. Thank you guys. Thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to hit that like button, subscribe, and leave us a comment below. We love chatting with you guys. We've got so much more content and powerful testimonies coming your way. So follow us on our socials. And until next time, stay safe. Keep speaking about the words of this life.

Hi, welcome to Words of This Life podcast. My name is Pablo and here we share real and impactful Christian stories from believers who love the Lord and his word. Through these testimonies, we want to showcase the virtues of the one who's called us out of darkness into his marvelous light. Virtues that are at work in everyday people, shaping their character, guiding their actions, and shining forth his life into the world. We're so happy you're here with us for this episode and let's get right intoit. All right, welcome back to another episode of Words of This Life. We're here joined by wonderful two guests, Crossbow and Dora. Welcome to the show. It's good to have you. >> Yes, it's good to be here. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, >> thank you for inviting us. >> Yeah, we're excited for this conversation. We're going to be diving into uh Croswell and Dora's life in what the Lord has done over the years and especially diving into some of theirexperiences doing mission work in multiple countries and being sent by the Lord to different places. And um we always like to begin with our guest with a little bit of your background of how you came to know the Lord when the Lord became real to you. >> So you can do that individually or together um but yeah, a little bit of how the Lord um how you came to know the Lord initially. >> Amen. Good. Go ahead. I grew up in a Christian home. I grew up in Bise, Central America in a German-speakingcommunity. My parents were Christians. My dad very much loved the Bible and read the Bible. And he was a very seeking Christian. >> In the denomination where we were, um there were only Germans. So, it was very exclusive. um if there was anybody else come visiting, you were welcome to come visit, but you could not be a member of the church. >> Exclusive. >> And my dad in reading the Bible, >> he would read the portion where it says there's no Greek or slave. There's nofree or free man, but we're all one in the Lord. Mhm. >> And my dad realized that what they're practicing doesn't match >> the Bible. >> Wow. >> And so he was seeking and went to I remember as a young child we visited various different denominations. We would go on Sunday mornings. Um and I didn't understand why we were doing that but later my dad told us. So he would go into different places and he would talk to their pastors or or their responsible people there ask certain questions andhe would realize that in most of the places or all the places he went to they also had certain practices >> that didn't match the Bible. So he was like, "Why do I leave one place that doesn't practice according to the Bible just to go to a different place where they have another item that's not according to the Bible?" >> So he kept seeking. >> Yeah. >> And when I was about 15 probably >> is when my dad met a group of people who understood the Bible more fully thanpeople he had met before. >> That's good. And um I think especially in the past certain things in the Bible to him seemed like they were contradictory like the example of on the one hand you are saved by grace. So it's nothing that we do to be saved. But then you have another verse that says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. How do you reconcile that? So where I grew up they taught that you could lose your salvation. So if you weren't a good person, then you lost your salvation. Soyou had to re-repent in order to for God to accept you again. >> But then so on the one hand, you're saved by grace. On the other hand, work out your own salvation. Then my dad learned when he came with this group of Christians, he learned that yes, we are saved. Once you are saved, you are born a child of God. You can't be unborn once you have been born. >> Yeah. Right. Your >> salvation. That's right. >> But you also can't now be like, "Okay, I'vebeen saved. Now I can live the rest of my life any kind of way I want." No, you have to work out your own salvation. You have to learn to live Christ in all your different >> So, it was both sides. >> Yes. Wow. Right. Okay. >> So, there's two sides to a truth. They do not contradict each other. Rather, they help each other. M. >> So anyway, um the first year about when my parents were there, I really didn't have any interest in that. I had my group of friends. I was happy with where I was.>> Mhm. >> And um I would say I was not very much a seeker of the Lord. I was fine. I wanted I was a good person. I was a good girl. I would um feel bad if I disobeyed my parents and so on. I had I was raised with that kind of a conscience but it wasn't like I really was seeking the Lord. >> But after about one year um one time I was in a meeting with a group of believers where my parents were meeting at that time and the atmosphere was very rich. Mhm. >> The singing, you could tell the way theywere singing, their whole being was into it. >> And um I remember very specifically one hymn that was being sang >> that had and in the chorus at the end it says um or the chorus says, "Glorious church life, feasting from such a rich store. Here where we're dwelling in oneness, God commands life ever more." M >> and that really caught my attention because where I grew up there were a lot of rules. There were rules about how you had to comb your hair, what kind of headcovering you had to have. >> Um you couldn't wear pants. You for girls wore dresses and you couldn't even wear skirts. That was too worldly. So it had to be like all in one piece. >> Oh wow. just and things like what kind of things you could put in your hair, things that weren't too shiny, and they're just a lot of rules. >> And here it said God commands life. So command is like you have the ten commandments. You understand it as something you're supposed to do. Andthen here it is, God commands life. So it's like God's rule >> is life, >> right? >> And that really stuck out to me. I was like, wow. What God is concerned about is life. That we would have his life. And in that meeting, I tasted something to where the Lord himself became real to me. And after that, it really didn't matter to me if I had friends or didn't have friends or if I needed to make new friends. I just wanted to have more of this Christ. >> Wow. That's precious. Wow. Okay. Good.Well, I I'll share then. Yeah. >> Yeah. My my story is a little bit different. Um I I grew up in a Christian family. I was born in in Jamaica and of course we migrated here when we were little kiddos. Um but how and when the Lord became real to me is um you know they were preaching they preached the gospel every Sunday as normal. >> Oh wow. Um but but there is one particular okay I might have been saved when I was younger. >> Who knows you? I mean I I remember definitely when I was very young uhbeing touched by a word on hell >> and it was a hellfire and brimstone message. It was it was very vivid. It was very vivid. I believe I got saved, but I I don't quite remember. But definitely when I was 14 and they had a word on um receiving the Lord. And so I went forward and received the Lord with the some brethren there. You got on your knee. There was some shepherds there or some helpers, whatever, you know. And I prayed and I received the Lord. And you know, to me, the Lord >> was genuine at that time. And then ofcourse when I was 18 I got baptized and uh along the way here now it's the um end of my high school years and I don't know for some reason my mom you know we decided to visit a bunch of different denominations. >> So that particular year we visited several different denominations. So, you know, I saw quite different backgrounds and that stuck with me. The reason why I share that eventually when I when I went to be a a student at university, um I decided to not meet with anybody >> because I was kind of tired of all thefanfare and all the things that I saw. >> Interesting. You know, it's just it's just a lot of things out there and you're like, "Lord, what where are you supposed to land? >> Where are you supposed to be? Which group of believers? I already know what this one's about. I already know what this one's about. I already was in this group, you know." >> Yeah. >> I mean, I went from one spectrum to the next. >> Wow. >> You know, so I'm just like, Lord, thisis like a, you know, a feast where they they have uh taste testers, you know. >> Yeah. Little ordev here, a little cracker here, a little cheese here, but nobody had the meal. >> Yeah. >> So anyway, uh that was kind of my uh experience of being saved and kind of, you know, getting I would for me I would see getting set up to meet some more serious Christians. >> You guys seem to have a similar experience where you're seeking and searching is at different ages. Um, whendid you you said you felt like you were being set up to find a certain group of people. When did that happen? When did you >> Oh, that happened my freshman year is no doubt. >> You know, I was I was I was away I came to the the campus late. >> Um, and so I did I missed all the start off campus activity that usually happen on a campus, you know, and tableabling and all this and clubs and I didn't I missed all that, you know. And I was happy cuz I wouldn't have run to any of them. Um,so when I came to campus, I just I just had I just plugged in with others. >> Okay. >> But you get to know people in the dorm, you know, >> and so there was a brother there and uh he would come by my dorm room and he would give me like little strips of verses, you know. >> Wow. And I'm like, why is this guy giving me strips of verses when I have the whole Bible here? I mean, I've got the whole thing. I So, I stick it in my desk, you know? I'm like, I don't need this. Uh,>> but I I realized later, just later, I realized he carries around the verses and he memorizes the verses. I mean, can you believe that? >> Wow. Wow. >> Anyway, I just was quite impressed later with that. But um that was one of my friends and then he introduced me to other brothers um that were college students but that first semester I it just I didn't I didn't get you know you know captured for the Lord or anything rather I just had a a positive feeling that this is you know someone reallyloves the Lord but then the next semester I had to leave the university >> so I dropped out of school but um they stayed in contact with through letters and so forth. And I left school mainly because there was a a war and I was in the military at the time. So I had to leave for that. Um then when I came back to Texas, this was another story. I think this whole war thing was a setup >> because when I was there uh not at the war but we were in preparation um one day we were marching to um one ofthe meals and I think the whole battalion was there and and I I looked at them you know it was a like a sea of men in green and I looked at them and I said Lord what are we doing? >> Where are we going? What are we fighting for? you know. >> Mhm. >> And um that for the first time in my human life as a man, I started to consider something higher than myself. What is the purpose of my human life? Is this it? >> Wow. >> I mean, is this it? I mean, it couldn't be more valuable than this.>> And for the first time, I started to think about the purpose of my human life. And um that was the the thought that I needed at that time. I think the prayers worked. That that was just at that point. That's what I needed to to get to. So I come back to Texas now and now I have a desire to find out and seek what is the meaning of my human life. >> So I went and I sought out this brother and the other brothers that he knew. >> Maybe he would have a, >> you know, a glimpse, a hunch, someknowing of, you know, the purpose of our human life. And eventually I got with them and I was very clear. These brothers and sisters know what they're talking about. >> Um what is the purpose of my meaning? The meaning of my human life is to be is to know God is to be filled with God. Is to express God. And realizing that the way I approach life now and saw things was like with different glasses. >> Wow. >> Yeah. I mean, for the first time, I I it wasn't just me anymore in the picture,you know, for I went to school. I went to school for me. >> Yeah. >> I was the only one in view. I didn't God was not in view. >> Uh God's purpose was not in view. >> Um yeah, it it was a life-changing type of encounter. >> This conversation is about uh going to other countries >> because you felt being you were being led by the Lord. And it comes with that kind of >> change in what the purpose of my life is. >> So I I wanted to ask you, Dora, wasthere ever a point where you kind of had this shift of like purpose like Crossbow had >> in light of then going abroad >> kind of thing? >> Yes, there was a time I did go to college too and after college I went to a uh Bible school. But when I went to the Bible school, I went more with a view of um I wanted to go back to my country >> to take care of the young people there. I wanted to I wanted to minister and and take care of the young people in my locality. But when I was in that Bible trainingBible school, it was in the more in the beginning years when the iron wall in Russia had come down and there was a group of believers that had gone to Russia and a few of them would come back and visit the Bible school and share with us some of their experiences. And at that time there was very much a call where it was repeated many times where they would tell us that at this time if you want to be in the center of God's move >> then you should go to Russia. So there was a real burden about that.But I at that time actually I did not want to go to Russia and one main reason was when I was at the Bible school away from home away from Bise I was very homesick I'm from a large family I'm the oldest of seven >> and I missed my family very much >> and I felt like if I was this homesick just being in California um I could not imagine Being in Russia to me, Russia was so far away that I felt like even if you got on a plane and went there, there was no guarantee you'd ever be able to comeback. >> Yeah. >> So, >> very far. >> I um decided not to pray about going to Russia and I thought that if I didn't pray about it, then the Lord would not have a way to send me there. So, I wouldn't have to go. I I wanted to serve the Lord. I wanted to be useful to the Lord, but I thought I could do that in my own country with my people. Well, toward the end of the Bible training, one day I listened to a message that was shared and it was very much related to the life and work of theapostles in the New Testament. And I was very very impressed when uh the brother who spoke the word shared that especially the apostle Paul everything that he did he did with one goal in view >> and his goal for his whole life whether he was traveling visiting the churches in all the different places or whether he was so intense as we read in the Bible he earned his own >> Mhm. Mhm. >> income. >> Mhm. >> So whether he was working or whether he was working for the Lord full-time withhis whole time without a job, his goal was the new Jerusalem as we can see in the Bible. >> And so I prayed a oneline prayer. >> I said, "Lord, I want my life to be for the new Jerusalem." >> Wow. Amen. And as soon as I said that one line out of my mouth, >> then there was a very clear sense inside, then you have to go to Russia. >> Wow. >> And so then I couldn't argue with it. And so I went to um talk to a few older believers uh told them what my feeling was andand they felt good that I would go. And I also spoke with my parents and told them what I had what my interaction with the Lord was. And my mom said, "We'll miss you, but we'll pray for you over there." And my dad was very happy for me to go. My dad, as I had mentioned earlier, was a genuine seeker of the Lord. And actually, he would have liked to be able to be a missionary somewhere. But he didn't have the opportunity. And so for him to have his daughter be able to go to Russia as a missionary, to himthat felt like >> his desire was being fulfilled through his daughter. So he was very, very supportive of me going. >> Wow. So, I went to Russia and I can testify, never one day was I homesick over there like I was in the Bible school when I was in California. >> Wow. Russia ended up being better than Cal Southern California. >> Yeah, that's that's God taking care of you. >> That's exactly right. >> That's tremendous. >> Yeah. I don't think any of us had thatany feeling that we're homesick. >> Wow. No, I mean, you know, even though I grew up in a place where it's all sunny. >> Yeah. >> And you get there and it's, you know, the the first week or two was, you know, not too not too bad. It was half sunny, you know, and it was fall time. It was nice, but uh as time went on, it got cold fast and it was cloudy for three, four, five months. And you're like, do they have a sun here? You know, >> it was it was I mean, wow. I said,"Lord, man, how can who can last in this place?" >> Wow. >> And uh >> had you been in places with a lot of snow before or no? >> Oh, sure. You were sure. This was the first time. Never, brother. Oh my goodness. >> No way. >> And it was the coldest winter Russia had had in a hundred years. >> Oh, it was cold. >> Was our first winter. >> It was cold. Nothing I put on worked, man. >> It was a very cold. I had to I had to figure out how to live there,>> you know. I had to buy their kind of gloves and their kind of hat and you know, I just >> nothing. We brought I was cold all the time. >> Eventually, you learn how to live there, you know, and then of course you get acclimated and you and you calm down, >> you know, and things worked out, you know. It was a little teeny shock, but not too big of a shock. >> Wow. >> Yeah. We we adjusted because we learned from others. >> Yeah. Especially, you know, like HudsonTaylor. >> Yeah. >> Um, he had a really good testimony and I read his biography. >> Yeah. >> And he impressed me to the uttermost, you know, his approach was he he went to China and his approach was eventually he saw other missionaries how they kind of they just maintain their their way, >> you know, their kind of maybe their kind of culture or their kind of >> uh outlook and so forth. But eventually he realized if I'm going to gain the Chinese, I need to be like the Chinese,right? >> So he changed he totally changed his way of dress, you know, he grew a little a little pigtail like they did. I don't know, you know, and he he he just he just he just matched them and he spoke fluent Chinese. >> Wow. >> And so I I learned from that very fast. If you want to gain the Russians, you just need to be like the Russians. >> Yeah. >> As much as you can, right? >> Wow. That's right. >> Some of us don't fully quite get there,but you know, Yeah. Yeah. Get close. >> If you if you get close, >> if you pick up the language or >> No, language is a big thing. I I believe you know many >> you had a difficulty picking up the Russian language. >> Oh, language. Russian is a hard one. Oh my goodness. I mean, initially the first year you just get conversational so you can you know make sure you don't die. >> Uh you can buy know how to buy food and you know get around >> but >> and buying food there was different thanbuying food anywhere else. But you know, but eventually you know if you force yourself, if you exert the energy, if you put in the time to learn the language, the structure and then eventually just to learn to think that kind of way, you can you can have a breakthrough. Not everyone had a breakthrough, but those of us who already possessed other languages, it is it wasn't hard to pick up >> uh after a while. >> Wow. >> But it's a hard one. It's it's a it was a very hard language.>> Wow. Was there a moment where where God called you both? Because you've been involved in mission work and full-time service to the Lord for so many years. Was there a moment that you felt like my life is going to be for this? Like I'm going to God is calling me in a more of a long-term lifelong kind of a way or or was each mission trip kind of like, okay, I'm going for a year or I'm going for I thought it was going to be a short thing, a one-year deal, and I'm done.I'm going to go home, go back to grad school, and continue my life. Yeah, >> that was my thought. >> Okay. >> Okay. I don't know about you, but that was my thought. And >> I went for one year. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm just, you know, one year. >> Sure. >> You know, pay back to the Lord. You know, he has invested something into us. You know, we're human. >> Yeah. >> And so, uh, but when we got there, the first year was not bad. And I So, I Icalled the brothers and said, "Hey, can I stay for another one?" You know, I mean, this is not too bad. I I can do one more. So I gave one more year, you know, and uh and that one that then I went second year and and it was very good and I said, "Man, can I stay for another one?" And and it was like, "What's wrong with this guy?" You know, and stay for another one. And it was it was great. >> Wow. Um, but after the third one, I started to run into some issues as faras I realized if I'm going to be here long term, I need to get married. >> It was my respons responsibilities were increasing. >> Yeah. >> I started to get sick a lot and I just I needed help. >> So, I started to pray more regularly for a wife. >> Mhm. um on a regular basis and start to consider and look and nothing worked out. I'm just like, well, I'm I'm going to be going home because I told the Lord if I can't get a wife this year, man, I'm out of here.>> Yeah. >> You know, cuz you know, there's not people too many people look like me there in Russia, you know, and so I'm just I'm just kind of like, you know, you're going to have to do something, Lord. >> Sure. Yeah. Wow. >> You know, and you know, it's got to be real. >> Yeah. Absolutely. So you guys were in the same like mission group. >> We were in the same I went a month earlier. >> Uhhuh. >> I didn't know he was coming.>> We had met in the Bible school. Okay. >> So we we we knew each other >> a little bit. >> Okay. And so he came a month afterwards and but we weren't um we didn't live in the same city except for the first one month or month and a half or something during the language course. >> Mhm. >> We had a language course in the beginning in Moscow. So we were at this at the same place, but then I went and lived in southern Russia >> and Croswell stayed in Moscow>> and then we would see each other a few times during the year when we had conferences uh where the believers gathered together. >> You guys want to tell us how you guys got married? How did you guys feel about each other initially? I I know I know a little bit of the story. That's why I'm kind of excited while I'm asking. I'm going back. Oh, like the juicy stories. Okay. You start sh something there. >> A little bit of background. When we were in the Bible school together, we bothhad a couple of different experiences where we realized we did not like each other. >> We're two strong personalities. >> Oh, really? >> So, Don't you agree? >> Yeah. Keep going. Keep going. >> So anyway, um maybe about a year into that I knew him, one day I had this realization that quite often when you hear people telling their stories of how they got married, it's not unusual. There will be stories where you'll hear, "Oh, so I ended up marrying the guy whoI thought this could never happen." >> And so I was just like, "Lord, if you want to do that to me and give me Crosville, then I'd just rather stay single the rest of my life." >> Do you want to say that? >> That's so real. Keep talking. Keep talking. Keep talking. It must have been around the similar time where one day he looked over to where I was and he said, "Lord, just not her." >> So, it was very mutual. We agreed. >> Wow. >> To not laugh. Anyway, we didn't likeeach other. >> You have to tell the truth, you know. >> Thank you for that. >> So, now we've been in Russia for about three years, like he was saying. We both did want to get married and were praying about it. I had had an experience where I was somewhat in a I was in a mutual relationship, but I just didn't have peace inwardly. >> Eventually, I got to the point where I told the Lord, I said, "Okay, Lord, I'll let go of that and I'll be single the rest of my life." because I feltlike that was my last chance and if I let go of that person >> then I wouldn't have another opportunity. >> So I told the Lord, it's okay. I'll be single for the rest of my life, but I will have your presence. >> Wow. Amen. >> I could picture myself loving and serving the Lord for the rest of my life, even if I was doing so single. Um but then um not too long after that around that time I also had the experience where being in Russia and you have all these new believers that you'retaking care of and you have believers of all different walks of life that come to you and seek out your fellowship and >> they have things that are concerning to them. So some of them have situations in their marriages. Eventually I told the Lord, I said, "Lord, in order for me to be able to really be a help to these people, I need to be married. I need to know what married life is in order for me to be able to to help these people that I am taking care of." So, it ended up shifting a littlebit to where I didn't just want to get married because I wanted to get married, but I realized in order for me to be more useful to the Lord, I needed to be married. >> Hold on. >> And um >> hold on. I think I had a similar kind of a realization. Uh I think after after a while when you serve as a single person you realize you can only go so far and he can only shepherd people >> so far you can only shepherd a limited category of brothers and sisters >> or at least just brothers um and maybeas you get older as an older person maybe you know >> younger younger ones but I realize you know if I stay single I can only shepherd a certain category of people. But as you you if you get married, then your span uh gets enlarged. You know, you not only can shepherd single individuals, but you can also shepherd married individuals and even probably couples and so forth. >> So your usefulness gets enlarged. >> And so um at that point that I had that realization and I told the Lord, I meanI don't I'm not just getting married for myself. I need I'm getting married because you know the Lord needs me to expand in this kind of way >> in this function and so the Lord has to you know find the right one and after a while I did get discouraged because I couldn't find anybody that was able to to match me and and it was you know and I did not want to compromise >> um my consecration to the Lord you know or cut short my my time being there. So I told the Lord, you have to findsomebody that you know that's either here that or or you have to send me somebody. I'm not just going to leave because there's a need to get married. So it was a really nitty-gritty, really kind of a really hard pressed time. >> Hard kind of hard prayers, you know, it's like, Lord, you just going to have to release the right one. M >> and you know there was one brother I fellowship with has an older brother and he he he told me you know he believes the Lord has the right one for me.>> So that was an encouragement for me at that particular juncture. Uh and I said I had to believe that the Lord has something and at the end of that year I had called one of the my elders here and was kind of opening to him you know and he and he goes I see no problem with you know this so and so you know you know and um just to see how he felt and he yeah no problem but eventually inwardly I had the feeling not to go ahead with that, not to go forward. I just I felt like somebody was pulling me back, you know,>> was holding me back within even though I had the outward okay. >> Um so I I waited and then two months later we had this kind of special trip. We had to go to this particular section of the um former Soviet Union and eventually we were on the same team along with some others. And what started to happen here was I real I said to myself, "Oh, she's going to be on the same team as I am. Oh Lord, oh, we better, you know, kind of behave ourselves kind of things." Cuz I remember together when we were in theBible school, we were kind of bumping heads a lot there, you know. Anyway, eventually turned out to be something sovereign of the Lord. >> Wow. >> That we were put together because we didn't know the Lord was leading us together, >> right? I think he took 3, four years to chip off some of our roughness and our rough edges and our sharpness and our oldness and whatever in our concepts and smash our thoughts and kind of broaden our hearts. >> Yeah. >> So eventually we can receive oneanother. >> Wow. >> I mean cuz she, you know, she came from a very particular background. Everybody looks like her, >> you know, and uh and I come from a particular background where majority of the people look like me. M >> and then of course you know uh in between whatever a medal or mix of knowing other people but it's a miracle. >> Wow. And I don't know if you wanted to continue >> like he started saying we went on this trip together for 10 days and we'revisiting uh various cities uh new believers in those areas um seeking visits from other Christians wanting to know more about the Lord and so on. So, we're on this uh 10day trip and in the first city where we were at, I still had my rather negative view toward Krasville. >> When when I got the list showing who's who's on my team and I saw his name on there, my reaction like his was, "Oh Lord, I hope everything is going to go peacefully on this trip." But anyway, so we're in the first city and we're thereon a Saturday night and they gathered the young people together. So he shared a word with the young people from the Bible and shared I don't remember what he shared but he shared with the young people and me instead of being there supporting and praying for him while he's speaking I'm thinking he's too much, he's too strong. like shame to myself now looking back but I was negative I I did not appreciate his portion >> man >> no amen from her >> then the next day one of the youngpeople 12year-old boy he comes early to the to the meeting on on Sunday morning dressed in a suit and tie And his mom told me afterwards, she said he came real early because he wanted to make sure he would get to sit right next to Crosville. >> And then um on in that meeting um Crosville also shared a word with all the believers that were there in the meeting. And another um of the ladies there came up to me afterwards and she goes, "Oh, what he shared was so helpful." And so I thought to myself, hm,interesting. Seems like I'm the only one around here that doesn't like him. And um anyway, then we uh get back on a train and start traveling to another city. and and just little interactions started happening on the on the trips where where I started to see some other things about him that I didn't I didn't know before >> and we had a little experience where uh we're on the train traveling together and and one of our teammates had a bag of apples so she gave everybody an appleand at that point I didn't want an apple. So I said, "No, thank you." Well, apparently he had eaten two. >> So then as some time went on, then I asked her, "Hey, do you still have some apples?" And she goes, "No, what happened to yours?" So she got upset with him for having eaten two that I didn't get one. But I told her, "Don't worry about it. I said I didn't want it." So he didn't do anything wrong. >> I'm a logical person.So he grabs into his bag. He had some tangerines and they had really really good ones over there at that time. So he hands me a couple of tangerines which to me were way better than the apple would have been anyway. >> But just little things like that you could tell the way he would care for somebody. So um wherever we were getting ready to to go back out on the bus or travel somewhere else, it was cold. So he would hand me my boots and my coat as we're getting ready to go outside. And Iremember thinking, "Nobody's ever done this to me before." It's like, "Why does he do this?" Not because I liked him at that point, but I was I noticed it. And then one day, I put on my coat and I put my hands in my pocket and there's an apple in my pocket. >> Oh, wow. And so when I feel that apple in my pocket, this guy, when I found that apple, I'm like, h, I know who put this apple in here. >> Are you sure? >> And I have no intention of having anykind of relationship with this person. I am not eating this apple. >> Wow. >> So I gave >> poison apple. So, I gave the apple away and then the next day he asked me, "Did you eat the apple?" And then I said, "No, I gave it away." Anyway, we had >> It didn't work. >> Did your heart begin to soften or say? >> No, I have no idea. I just I just let it pass. >> Not going to get into it. >> Anyway, um we had different experienceson those trip. We had one very neat experience where we were in a village. Um, we also went to look up specific addresses because people had sent in cards requesting visits. >> So, we went to go look up this one one address and there was the the person we were looking for wasn't there. >> Mhm. So, the lady at the door said that the person you're looking for, you'll find them. If you go down the street, turn right, then you'll find a post office. Outside of the post office,you'll see a big dog tied to a pole. Stand by the dog, and you'll find the man you're looking for. >> That's right. That's exactly what we did. We went up the hill, went up to the post office, a big uh St. Bernard and we're like, "Whoa, this is a big dog." So, we stood by the dog and waited and the man came out, untied the dog and say, "Hi, are you so and so?" And he said, "Yes, I am." So, then we went by walked back to his house with him. And it was a very dearbeliever. Um, really loved the Lord. Eventually, he he he came in among us to >> Wow. >> to know the Lord in a very good way. I was Yeah. Very precious. >> Wow. So we went to various different places, very neat experiences of of finding people. Then we went to this one village out in the country and uh he's sitting with the men in the living room having their discussions and I'm with a lady in the kitchen and I asked her, "Where's your toilet? Where's your bathroom?" Well, they don't havethem inside the house in villages like that. >> Oh wow. and they were building a house outside. So, she explains to me, you go outside around this building that's being built and back there is the outhouse and it's already dark. So, as >> it's winter, by the way, >> as I'm stepping toward the door to go out of the door, he steps up from the living room and hands me a box of matches. And I was like, a box of matches in Russia like that, it's dual purpose. One, it's a light and also to change theatmosphere in the area where you're going, >> make it fresh. >> So anyway, as he gives me that box of matches, I'm thinking, man, he treats me like I could be his wife. >> Yeah. Oh, what thoughts? >> I didn't say anything. That's your thought. So then um but he didn't say anything. I didn't say anything. But there the thought started to just like he treats me like I could be his wife. And so then I started to think about it a little bit. Could it likecould this be something viable or whatever. Anyway, that same night we get back to the city where we're lodging and uh we ended up having dinner in a home with a young family and the grandma and we're sitting around the table and the guy asked him all kind of questions and that part where we were probably a lot of people hadn't seen a black man before >> and so he asked him where are you from? Why are you here? Are you a spy? >> How old are you? >> Uh where's your family?>> And then he goes, "Where's your wife?" >> So then he goes, "She's not here and she doesn't exist." >> So then the Lord inside he told he told me later, so I'll tell you the story. >> So then the Lord inside asked him, >> "What about her?" Me sitting caddy corner from him. M. >> And then he's like, "Her, no, her. No, not her." And then the Lord asked him, "So, what are you looking for in a wife?"And then he stopped to consider a little bit. And he's like, "Well, actually, what I know about her and what I've heard others comment about her, actually, she has all the qualities I'm looking for. >> Okay, she'll be my wife." And the and the guy asked another question, but he now he's not responding. He's just sitting there like a statue. And so because he's quiet, then I tried to answer the guy's question. I think at that point he asked something related to the Bible orsomething. So anyway, I tried my best to answer his question. And then when I finished sharing, then I looked at him and I said, "Or hey, what else would you say?" So then he had to come back from his revelation of who his wife is going to be and continues his conversation at the table. >> Amen. Then as we're walking to our hospitality that night, I remember having a sense at least a sense of respect like, okay, I could respect him as a brother in the Lord. still finally finally>> I still wouldn't say that I had any feelings for him or that I really um thought this was going to go somewhere but at least that evening I felt like something there was something is going on >> and as we're >> yeah actually before we went out the door to go to our hospitality I felt also something was starting to happen >> as we're exiting I I say we came in one way and we're leaving another. Yeah, it very very interesting experience. Very very interesting experience. Um it was verypositive and um we were in the same hospitality. You know the house we were in, they had a lot of kids and like 12 kids. So it was a big house. Um I was with the boys and she was with the girls. Um it was just a very good uh type of situation where you could feel the Lord is in this. >> Wow. >> Um and at that particular night I just had the realization and feeling you know this this this sister is going to be my wife. >> Yeah. Wow. >> And um you know it's kind of like theend of the story. The only question is how we're going to get this started. >> That was about it to me. >> But you also had another experience that night. So that night when I get to the house, I just I have this sense something is going on. He hasn't said a word, but I just have a feeling something is happening. So I go close myself in a little room and I tell the Lord, I said, "Okay, Lord, I just want one thing to be very clear between me and you." And that is I willnot marry unless I love. M >> but I added a small little footnote. I said, "But if you want to do something between Crosville and me, myself, then you got to give me feelings for him, and you got to make me crazy in love with him." >> And if you don't do those two things, then don't even think about it. End of prayer. I think I have a tendency to have just very short concise >> one-s sentence prayers. Anyway, so here was more like three sentences. >> Butthen I went to bed and I slept like any other night. I didn't lie there trying to figure out how is this going to work, whatever. But the next day for him, he told me later when he saw me the next day, he's like, "Wow, the queen." >> By the way, he's called me queen many times. >> So sweet. >> And um >> so then uh to him it's like the sky is blue, the trees are green, the birds are singing, life has just begun. And for me, we get on another bus going to visitit somebody else. So, he's sitting a little more to the front on one side of the bus aisle and I'm on the other side. I can see the profile of his face and I'm just sitting there staring at him and I'm like, "So, that is supposed to be my husband." >> Yeah. I think by the end of that trip we we we had pretty good feeling. >> Wow. >> You know, we need to develop this relationship further. >> Wow. >> Um and as I was getting ready to go on my train,>> this is sorry without at all ever talking about it like you never >> No, we said nothing to each other. >> This is just purely the Lord working each other separate. >> Working inside. Nothing. We didn't say anything outside. Zero. >> The Lord is so involved. We had three days left. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Yeah. We didn't say anything. >> Amazing. >> Um at this point, I think the last day now we are going uh we're leaving uh Stafra and then we uh I was saying goodbye tothe team and you know we're going by one by one. I was saying goodbye, see you later kind of thing. And I said, "See you later." And that see you later could be either you individual or you plural, you know, like in English. >> Uh, and of course later she asked me, "Who did you did who did you say it to? Did you say it to me?" Uh, cuz she was thinking, "Maybe it's just me specifically." But, but she was thinking, "No, wait a minute. It's all of us. The whole team is here, youknow." Uh, but actually, personally, I was saying it to her. I'll see you later >> cuz in a couple of months we're going to have like another conference in that same uh country. >> Uh so we would come back to that country to hold our conference uh with the believers there. Um anyway, I just really uh appreciate the Lord's way of doing things >> and eventually we did get into contact with one another >> um through correspondence and then eventually through phone calland of course eventually uh I visited her. >> But let me interject a little bit there. Yeah. before we started communicating, when I got back to my city, um first when I got on the on my train to go back to my city, I sat and just laughed at myself because I was I'm sitting here now. I'm starting to like this guy. >> Not bad. >> Finally came to your senses. So I'm just there laughing at myself because I'm like this is completely impossible me like him. I was like cuzin the past I was like I'd rather stay single the rest of my life than be married to him. But now I'm beginning to like this guy. Anyway, I get back to my city and I think maybe about a week passed, maybe two. One day I wake up and I'm thinking about this idea and he still hasn't said, we still have not said a single word to each other about this. So, I wake up and I'm thinking about it and then I'm remembering the things I didn't like about him before. And so, I'm just like,I don't think I'm interested. I think just fancy idea but forget about that and as I'm saying forget about that then the Lord comes to me and the Lord asks me so what are you looking for in a husband >> and very distinct like like the Lord is sitting as a person in front of me asking me that >> and so I had learned from my previous experience that really what I wanted is I want a man where God is first. I want a man uh that I can have an open home with. I want to be able to invite peopleto my house. >> I want somebody that loves the Lord's people and especially the young people. And as I'm listing the items that I'm looking for in a husband, then I realize, oh, actually everything I saw about him on that trip, he has all the qualities. M. >> And then the Lord asked me, "So, will you receive what I have prepared for you or will you continue looking for your own idea?" >> Wow. >> And so I thought real hard for a second there. Um, in my culture, girls getmarried between 18 and 21. I am 28. >> So, I'm I've looked for my idea and it didn't work. So I'm like, "Okay, I'll receive." And so then I started praying that the Lord would lead us, lead him how we should start getting in communication because if we're going to get married, we're going to have to start talking somewhere at some point. You can't marry somebody without talking to them. >> So then you continue. >> So yes, we got into contact.>> Yeah. through email and then uh phone call and then um it just developed after that. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Our our courtship was quite I would say quite good because first of all there was a distance between us. >> Yeah. >> So our my phone bill was >> Oh, >> it was quite uh quite big. >> Cost of love. >> Oh yeah. You gladly paid you, right? >> Yeah. Oh yeah, we're glad to paid you. >> It was good though. But it was funny during that time I was getting an anoffering from somewhere anonymous offering. >> Sure. >> And so it it helped to cover those long distance phone bill. >> But the day I got married that amount stopped >> that special offering. So you could see the Lord's uh hand uh was there covering us and supplying all our needs everywhere. >> Yeah. >> It was it was really good. I just really appreciate the Lord. You know, he has a way of taking care of us. >> Yeah. >> Uh mysteriously, anonymously sometimes.And you know, >> we just need to keep trusting the Lord. >> Yes. Amen. >> Amen. >> Wow. >> Hearing your testimony, you can't say >> God is not real. You feel like it's so involved and so full of feeling about bringing two people together for his purpose. >> Like it's just so worth it when God does that. >> So involved is incredible. >> Thank you for sharing that. >> Amen. And you're welcome. Yeah. >> Or just I I told the Lord so many timesjust thanking the Lord that he kept me from marrying anybody before and that he kept me >> for Crosville because that really was the one the Lord wanted to put me with. >> Wow, man. And now you've been married how long now? >> I don't know. 20 >> 24 years. 20. This is oldest is 23. So 25 years. >> Yeah. 24. And you have how many kids? >> Three. >> Three. >> Wow. What a blessing. What a wonderful blessing. >> Amen. >> Amen. And you've been to how many youyou've been to Braz I know. I understand you've been to Brazil together as a as a couple >> and then Russia. You've been Were in Russia. You weren't there married, but you were there single? >> We were. We started single. We ended up married and then having a couple of our kids >> in Russia >> during that time. Wow. >> Yeah. They weren't born in Russia. We had them over here. >> God. Wow. >> I do want to go back to just even being in Russia>> for uh the Lord's desire there. Russia is very different than the United States. >> It is. >> Um there's a new temperature, new language, different culture, different people. Uh so what was it like dealing with the culture shock of being in a in a new environment? Oh, brother, that's a hard question. >> That's crush. >> Well, anyway, let let me just describe it this way. Culture involves language. It involves geography. It involves food. >> It involves, you know, certain type ofetiquets. It involves ordinances, you know. Uh when when we got there, I was duly shocked. Let me just tell you first of all, you know, because a lot of people they they they uh they ride the public transportation over here. Car is the big deal, especially in Texas. >> Um so that was a big difference. And I remember getting on the bus, especially getting closer to the winter time. The bus would drive up, bus door would open, the bus would be full. >> And then some of the people from our busstop, they would press themselves in and get on that bus. >> Oh, and I'm like, I think I'll wait for the next bus. the next bus would come just the bus will be full and then some from our bus stops. They'll press themselves in and they'll get in. So, I'm getting the point. If I stay if I'm I'm going to stay here, wait for the next bus, I'm going to be here till midnight. I'm going freeze to death. >> Oh, wow. >> You know, so the next bus came, I youknow what I did? I got on the beds and I pressed myself in there so I could get on the bus, man. So I can get home. Oh my goodness. And the metro was like that. And uh not all the time, but most of the time, especially during the winter time, >> especially man, you had to just, you know, you just had to, you know, excuse me, sir, you know, get in, get in there. And of course, Americans are so polite in some certain ways. And everybody likes their distance, you know, their space. >> Forget space over there, man.>> Oh, wow. No personal space. >> There's no personal space. No, no, no, no, no, no. I think if you would have been able to lift up your feet, you wouldn't have fallen because you were pressed in so tight. Sometimes you would just hang there. >> You could just lean on people. >> Well, yeah. You just just lift you up. >> You're just there. You just >> lift up your legs, >> you know. You're just there. Sometimes I remember I didn't have to hold onanything cuz I'll just move with the flow. The bus slow down. You just go to hang, you know. >> Mhm. >> Cuz it was packed. It was packed. >> It was Yeah. Uh so there's lot lot of public things and of course shopping also pretty public uh using the public transportation going to open markets even in the during the winter >> uh open markets the snow it's just you know your hands would freeze because you're trying to take out cash to make make a purchase >> uh just just different man justhardships are different you know people have to you know deal with the the environment a lot >> then you have to interact with people you know all the time, good or bad. >> Yeah. >> You see things that you don't want to see, you know, people having fights, murders on the street. It's just >> it's just things you have to deal with. >> Sure. >> You know, uh it's just different way of life. Different way of life. >> Yeah. >> But we were there to carry out what theLord had commissioned us to carry out, right? >> We're not there to worry about this, worry about that. And then the Lord would gradually work on us to gain us to have some breakthrough in our concepts >> and definitely a breakthrough in our culture. Otherwise, you know, you wouldn't you wouldn't be able to make it, Sharon. You can't go there with your quote American culture and expect people are going to be open to you. >> Yeah. >> You would get absolutely slammed forthat. And we're not there to bring our culture actually, >> right? >> We're there to bring Christ to stay >> uh to minister Christ to people. >> Yeah. >> And that's what the brothers also infused us with. And you know, we didn't and I think that's why we didn't really feel I don't know uh the loss or oh, we need to go back home kind of thing. No, I mean the grace was there, the the supply was there. >> Uh because grace swallows race>> and so we're we we just focus on the Lord and the Lord has a way of bringing us through. >> Yeah. M >> one verse that was very rich to us is uh 2 Corinthians 6:1 >> says and working together with him we also intreat you not to receive the grace of God in vain and uh to us we understood very much where it says working together with him >> with the Lord really our service over there was by his life >> and the study Bible we were using. It has a footnote that talks about theworking together with him. >> Mhm. >> It says, this is referring to the apostles and we could apply it to ourselves also. They worked together with God by a life that was allsufficient and all mature, able to fit all situations, that is able to endure any kind of treatment, >> to accept any kind of environment, to work in any kind of condition and to take any kind of opportunity for the carrying out of their ministry. >> So I think we really had that vision and that view. M.>> So I would say I didn't feel that much culture shock because I was there with that kind of vision, with that kind of purpose. I felt I was where the Lord wanted me to be at this time. >> It was a very enjoyable, very satisfying feeling to be where the Lord has you at that time. Well, >> and to be there with together with a group of others who were pursuing the same way. We practiced getting into the word in the mornings to get the supply of the Lord and then more in theafternoons we would head out to visit people, preach the gospel. Uh our traveling would come out of that. So there was a rich supply. So it wasn't like I was saying before, I didn't get homesick. um we didn't feel the culture shock that much because there was purpose there. >> Was sharing the gospel to Russians particularly difficult or was there like how are how is that you know typical Russian person receive the gospel from a from a foreigner? You know >> typical Russia>> I got all kind of responses. >> Wow. >> I mean my gospel partner would get punched >> just because he was with me. um or maybe he didn't he didn't want to hear the gospel >> from someone from the west. >> I mean you have to understand this dynamic between east and west and this this fight and this struggle >> at that time >> even though it's something biblical and you know and the Bible says the same thing. It's just >> some people received it uh with openarms and some were definitely put it political. And the ones who received it received Christ, we didn't minister anything from America. We minister something from the word of God. >> Amen. >> And so the ones who were genuinely open receive it. >> And um there are a lot of experiences of sharing the gospel to people. I remember one time um we were in the the public square uh preaching the gospel and we're walking by the river and uh there was this young lady sitting there and mygospel partner and I we stopped to ask her a question, you know, how is she doing? What's going on? What's she thinking about? You know, she's cont she looked like she was contemplating something deep. >> And so she says she was thinking about her grandma. >> And I'm like, what? And she goes, "Her grandma passed away recently." >> And she was wondering if she would ever see her grandma again. >> Wow. >> I said, "It all depends." >> Yeah.>> I said, "Were was your grandma a believer?" She said, "Yes." Uh he she was a believer. She she did receive the Lord and she loved the Lord very much. I said, "Well, if you have received the Lord, you will re see your grandma again. But if you have not received the Lord, then you will be in one place and your grandma will be in another place." It was very clear word and I said well if you really love your grandma and you really want to see her uh according tothe word when a person dies we're all in the same place in paradise together and with that we just began to share with her the gospel of the Lord Jesus >> and the life that the Lord has presented to us and she prayed to receive the Lord and we promised her according to what the word says she will see her grandma again. Amen. >> Uh as a bonafide believer and she was a very happy person. >> So we had a lot of experience of receiving the the >> the the the word and the amount ofpeople that received the word were actually shocking >> cuz I remember uh preaching the gospel to young people and I remember some who went before us when they when they preached the gospel in the earlier years they would ask hey how many would like to receive the Lord? Please stand up. And 99% of those in the hall stood up. >> Wow. So they would say, "Wait a minute, everybody. Everybody sit down. >> Let's say this again." >> Cuz they were using translation and sothey thought maybe the translator didn't translate correctly. >> Maybe it wasn't correct. >> Sure. >> Maybe they didn't translate correctly. So they said, "Okay, >> we're going to say again, if you would like to receive the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, please stand up." Voom. The whole hall would stand up. Wow. >> And then they would all pray to receive the Lord. >> Wow. >> And then how many like to be baptized? Voom, many hands went up. So they wouldhave long lines of those who wanted to be baptized. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, it was funny in those day kind of made a joke. You know, business was always good because there were so many sinners >> and uh and as the years went on, of course, the numbers were less, but the responses were still the same. >> People were still hungry for the Lord Jesus. Wow. >> And still hungry to know the truth of the word. >> And that was our experience. >> Wow. >> We even in in>> conferences where where we participated, there would be lines of probably 20 30 people wanting to be baptized at the end of the meeting. >> Wow. Wow. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Switching um continents for a second. We want to go back go to you spent some time in Brazil. The Lord led you there. So tell us a little bit about how the Lord led you to follow him to Brazil and then maybe a highlight or some of your experience there in serving the Lord in Brazil. >> Man, that leading was something else,you know. But after about 10 years of being in Russia, we felt okay, maybe it's time to go home. You know, there was a time when um that economic situation um happened and then actually many serving ones had to go back either home or go go back to their cities, go to school, go to work, whatever the Lord led them to do. And so the brothers asked everybody to go and pray. Everybody needs to pray before the Lord to see how the Lord would lead them. Yeah. >> And so my thought was since there is nono funds left, we don't even need to pray because it's obvious we're going home. >> That was my thought. >> No visas >> and no I mean it's this is so it's so logical. No visa, no money. What are you going to do? You're going to go home, right? So I just thought, okay, Lord, you know, it's a no-brainer. But the brother said, no, we want everybody to go pray to see if the Lord will open the way. So we have to really trust the Lord. So I went home I said Lord I donot know how to pray about this to me it is so logical. I mean why even pray? So went I started reading the word right and I was reading at that time John John 21. >> The Lord is talking to the disciples now. The Lord is saying this one will follow me and this one will do this and this one will die and and so forth. And then Peter therefore seeing him said to Jesus, "Lord, and what about this man, right?" Because one will betray him. And then of course previously he's sayingsignified what what death uh he would die. And then he said to him, he said to him, "Follow me." Because the Lord was asking him, you know, when he was younger, he stretched out his hands. >> Uh when he was younger, he did what you wanted. >> Yeah. And you walked where you wish, but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and another will gird you and carry you where you wish. Do not want to go. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, as I was reading this, this was like a word to me. I did notwant to stay because Russia to me at that time was very hard. >> It's a very hard environment, very hard situation. And I was just like, man, if we're done, we're done. You know, I'm packing up bags. But as I was reading this, it's like the Lord is speaking to me. Peter, therefore, seeing him said to Jesus, "Lord, what about this man?" In my mind, I was thinking, "Oh, this one is leaving. My close companion, he was leaving. Another one was leaving with his wife. Another one was leaving." AndI'm thinking, "Wow, it's so logical. So, I'm just leaving, too." >> Yeah. >> I mean, to me, it was so obvious. Um, but then it's like the Peter was saying, "Lord, what about this man?" Right? And I'm saying, "Yeah, Lord, what about this man, too?" Right? And Jesus said to him, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me." >> So, it was like the Lord, it's like the verses just jumped out of the page. Whatif I want you to stay? You follow me. You don't look at brother so and so. You don't look at sister so and so. You follow me. >> Correct? So right there realize each one of us has has a a very particular path before the Lord. We have to follow the Lord. >> Wow. >> We can't look at so and so, you know, and and say, "Okay, we have the same path." >> Yeah. >> Not really. We have we have we'll get there eventually, but the Lord takes us different way.>> And when when when I had read that, I had to just close the word. I said, "Wow, Lord, what does this mean?" So, I had to go out for a long walk. >> I went out to the there's a a university nearby, man. I had to go to the sporting complex. I just walked around that track several times. I said, "Lord, are you really talking to me about this? Is this really related to me?" And I just I said, "I am not leaving this track until I get an answer from you." you know, andeventually I eventually I got clear you are gonna stay >> and you're gonna find the way and you're gonna find the grace >> to stay. >> And I went back home and I shared it with her. I said, "Dear, I believe the Lord wants us to stay." >> How? I have no idea. >> How much longer? I don't know. Uh >> and what was very interesting was that during that same time that he was having that interaction and I had no idea I was at home and what a place that's a verygood place for young mothers to talk to the Lord is in the shower >> because that's about the only place you have where your kids are not talking to you at the same time. So, I'm there standing in the shower and I just have this sense the Lord is asking me, "So, you really think you're going to leave Russia now, do you?" >> And then I was just like, "Well, yeah, I thought we were, but Lord, what are you saying?" kind of thing. And I just again, it was a very short interaction,but I just had a very clear sense, we're not going anywhere. >> And then he came home and shared his experience. So was again we separately had an experience where the Lord had told us you're staying here. So we thought we're going to live in Russia now the rest of our lives. >> Then I shared this with the brother that was overseeing the the work there. And to him it was I told him I said I don't want just you know the brothers to say okay yeah we want you to stay and thenyou just kind of go along. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But I want this to be a a direct encounter with the Lord, an experience of the Lord in this kind of situation. >> And uh that was it. And then we stayed there for a few more years. >> We found a way. Um and then going forward two and a half years later, they had this or at least two years later, we had this uh these uh gospel trips to go visit um Brazil. And I was in one of those and I and and I man I went there I said wow I love this. I said this iswonderful. >> Different Russia huh? >> Oh totally different. >> Yeah. Totally different situation. >> Let me let me interject something a little bit here too. Russia was not just physically hard because of the weather and the culture but also Russia was not safe for a black man to live in during that time. >> Oh wow. So sometimes his life would be in danger. >> Certain times of the year, certain holidays were worse. And so certain days he would not go out on the streetbecause it simply was not safe to go out on the street. And there were times where I feared for his life too. And I felt like how can I live in a country and my kids are growing up. if something happens to my husband, how am I going to explain to my kids such and such happened because your dad is black. >> Wow. >> And um but around this time to shortly after the Lord had shown us that we're going to be staying longer in Russia, it must have been right around that time where I was struggling with it and umI would take the kids out to play. Russians are very good about taking their kids outside every day to be out in the air and they in their apartment areas they'll have several apartment buildings close to each other and they always have kids playgrounds around. So we would uh with some of the other families that we knew living close by, we would call each other the moms and we would go out at the same time with our kids. So, we're outside playing with the kids and my son is riding on a bicycleand right next to where he's riding, there's a little um soccer court. Some other kids are playing soccer and my son is riding past the soccer court. There's a fence maybe about 3 feet tall, maybe 3 and 1/2 ft tall, and a ball comes flying over the wall and hits my son right in the side of his head. He falls off the bicycle, lands on the ground, but nothing happened to him. And then um maybe two days later again, we were outside. As we're walking back to the house, >> he's really lucky.>> He's on his bicycle again. >> Uhhuh. >> And at the end of our apartment building, there was a very short wall, like a 6ft raising. And then on the other side, it goes down about 3 and 1/2 4 ft where there's an area you can go to the basement of the building. So my son is riding his bicycle right next to that short little wall and he's trying to push his foot on that wall to like push himself to keep going on the B. He's not paddling. He's just kind of dragging hislegs and so he pushed his foot off of there. Well, his foot slips and goes the other way. He tumbles into that hole. Three, four feet. The bicycle up on top of him into the hole. >> Oh my goodness. >> Oh man. >> He had a little bruise on his elbow, but really nothing happened to him. >> It could have been bad. Both situations could have been bad. Then after that happened, one of the Russian moms knowing that I was struggling very much with the matter of my husband's safety,she looked at me and she said, "You know what? The Lord has numbered our days." >> And if it's not our day to go, it's not your day to go. >> And if it is your day to go, it's your day to go. It doesn't matter what country you live in, where you're at. It's going to happen. >> Wow. >> And I re I took that fellowship and I realized >> that our life is in the Lord's hands. >> Whether we live or whether we die, >> that's up to the Lord.>> Amen. >> We are here following him in his leading. And after that, >> wow, >> I didn't worry about that anymore. So, we thought we're going to live there for a long time. So, anyway, now he went to Brazil for this trip. He really enjoyed it >> related to Brazil. It's quite simple. Eventually the second year there was another trip and I thought okay I want to go again cuz the first one was so good. Um so I went to the brothers and I said I like to go and so they put my name onthe list but she's like no take your name off the list. Let somebody else go. You know you already had your chance. Take your name off and let somebody else have the opportunity to go. I said, "Oh, okay." Then not too long from then, uh, the brothers called me and said, "Hey, let's have some fellowship. Let's dis let's discuss the discuss a new trip." Uh, I said, "Okay, when?" Today it was which was a Saturday, but normally we don't have discussions on Saturday.Um, so we I went to this time together and they opened up that hey, they the the brothers were hoping that we would be in South America. I said when last week I said we don't have tickets like that you know so there was already some thought some fellowship some consideration that we would go there along with another family uh who eventually was our companion >> um that we went there together um so we were there together and we served there together for eight eight and a half years. >> Wow.>> Um and I think that's >> Wow. >> That was the that was the way the Lord led us there. love. >> And and we after we were there for a short while, we they were asking if we would stay, I said, "I'm not too sure. I think we're going right back to Russia." And they go, "I don't think so. We're going to ask for you to stay here." I think I said, "Really?" Uh eventually it was a lot of back and forth, you know, and eventually they pulled us out ofRussia. >> Wow. >> Put us into Brazil for a while. And uh it was a struggle to be there cuz um Russia was hard outwardly, Brazil was hard inwardly because of the the difficulties of the believers there. >> It was a really a negative situation >> and um the believers were really persecuted >> and also really uh misled >> and so there was a real need for a lot of shephering and personal one-on-one and a lot of visitations. It was just it was very hard because you know they werereally having a hard time >> really struggling. Many gave themselves to the Lord and they just felt cheated you know. >> Um so it was it was it was that kind of difficulty uh more of an inward difficulty but the Lord has a way to bring us through all these kind of things. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Amen. >> So we thought we would stay in Russia forever and then all of a sudden suddenly the Lord called us to go to Brazil. Yeah. >> And we both were just when when we'veheard that call and saw the need that was there, then we're like, what can we say? Just yes, Lord, we are here for you. If that's where you want us to be at this time, >> we'll go there. >> Wow. >> For our children, it was a struggle. Um, we our we had two children at that point. Our son was seven, our daughter was five. It was hard for them. They loved Russia. They had their friends there. They grew up there. That was the people they knew. And then here we are moving to Russia.New language. They can't speak it. >> Brazil. >> To Brazil. Yeah. Sorry. Moving to Brazil. >> It's Portuguese. >> Yeah. >> And uh no friends there. So they were like, why why do we have to be here? Why can't we go back to Russia? And we would explain to them, well, when the Lord called Abraham to leave his country, Abraham followed and the Lord called us to come here. Why couldn't the Lord call somebody else? But it didn't take very long. Um, we exercised very much to helpthe kids learn the language. Did whatever we could to help them learn. And we found a family that had kids ages not too far from ours and really tried to facilitate so they could get to know one another and they became very very good friends. Now our kids are very very >> have very sweet feeling to both places. They very much love both countries both Russia and Brazil. >> The the Lord took care of your children. >> Yes. >> Yes. Wow. >> The Lord has a way of doing all thesethings. >> That's good. >> The problem is us. We're just slow. >> Yeah. >> Slow. Lord, how's how's this going to work out? And we can't see beyond our >> noses, you Yeah. >> I just love how you guys just both in every stage were seeking the Lord's leading and were obedient to the Lord's leading. >> Yeah. >> And there was just fruit that was bore out of that. Um we're getting close on time, but I mean you guys are now in theStates. I just wanted to ask how's the Lord leading you guys now today? >> That's a very good question. We're also asking the same thing >> because the Lord the Lord is always moving on. He wants to close the age. >> Amen. Um I don't think you know he's stationary. Right now we just open our homes, shepherd new believers, uh visit people from time to time. >> We do take trips to places where we could visit >> either ones we have shephered in thepast that were either related to Russia or related to Brazil. >> Oh wow. >> We take the opportunity to to just to >> That's great. >> To to continue to keep the door open. >> Yeah. Because we're all brothers and sisters in the Lord regardless of culture or race or you know geography. We're all one body. >> Yeah. >> One body in Christ. And you know there is no there's no there are no lines. >> It's the natural man that makes lines.>> So you know we're just we're open to the Lord. Um, right now we're working. >> Mhm. >> And we just open our home and we, you know, enjoy the Lord as much as we can. Uh, shepherd the brothers and sisters here locally. >> Amen. >> As much as we can. Nothing special. It's just normal. >> Wow. That's wonderful. >> And maybe one day the Lord will uh move us to uh another place again. I don't know. >> Wow. >> We'll see how that works out.>> Wow. I'm sure there's many dear believers in both Brazil and Russia that if you ever visit, they're so happy to see you. You know, there's so many there. >> We try to stay in contact with them um and visit them in different places. >> Sure. Other places >> um that are uh possible. If it's in Brazil, we'll try to make a trip there once in a while. >> Um um we plan on making one here in the future. And and we have been to places where we actually saw some of thebrothers >> Yeah. from the Russian speaking world. Uh either they moved or they uh migrated or something. We we get chance to see them and it was like a a wonderful reunion. >> Wow. That's wonderful. >> Amen. >> Yeah. What a precious uh testimony to follow the Lord by faith. Follow the Lord's calling in a world where today people don't make a move before they check on Chip, Google everything, you know, make sure you know everything is right, you know. is is it's refreshing to hear of ofsomeone who just follows the Lord by faith without even knowing how that country is going to be. >> Yeah. >> Well, at the end of our episodes, we'd like to uh ask a couple questions. Just rapid fire questions that usually IO asks. >> So, I will go ahead and ask a couple fire. That means you going to Right. >> It's only two. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. >> Um >> we should come up with more. >> Yeah, we should. >> Think about Go for it. >> Favorite Bible verse and why?>> Oh, man. I don't know, brother. Oh, that's a that's a good question. There's a lot of them. >> Maybe current favorite Bible verse and why? >> I think for me, while he's thinking, >> I don't know. Um, I have of course a lot of good Bible verses, but one verse that was very meaningful to me at one point is um, I believe it's Deuteronomy 16:15 and it goes part of it goes something like Jehovah your God will bless you in all your produce and in all yourundertakings and you shall be nothing but joyful. M >> and I believe as long as we follow the Lord and are where he wants us to be at this time, then he will bless us whatever that blessing means. >> Mhm. >> And you shall be nothing but joyful. >> So like there's other verses that say always give thanks in everything rejoice. So when we are where the Lord wants us to be, it is very easy to be happy. >> Yeah. Amen. Amen. >> I don't know if I have a ver a verse perse. I really I don't know. But I do have favorite hymns >> which come out of verses. >> Sure. Yeah. >> And one of the hymns, it talks about God's eternal purpose. 13:25 God's eternal has a purpose formed in his eternal past spreading to eternal future tweaks these ends all time is cast for with their time there is the process time for his accomplishment and in time were merely travelers were merely travelers for eternity we're meant and I love this God would have a groupof people built together in his plan, blended, knit, coordinated. I mean, this >> Yeah. >> I mean, I I saw this kind of stuff in real real time. As his vessel, one new man, God would come into this vessel with his nature, life, and ways, mingling spirit with our spirits for his joy and to his praise. I love the entire song but those particular two stanzas there in that hymn God eternal has a purpose has impressed me since the day I came in as a student. >> Wow. >> Wow. This I love this hymn to theuttermost. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Thank you for sharing that hymn. That's a rich hymn. >> You're welcome. I I love it. >> Well, because of time we we have to end but thank you so much for sharing how the Lord has worked in you and through you. >> Amen. in so many places and and now here and um thank you for making the time to be with us to share your your Christ with us. >> Amen. Amen. This is great. >> All right. You're welcome. Thank you forinviting us. >> Yeah, it's been a pleasure. >> It was a pleasure to be here. >> Wonderful. And to our listeners, we'll be back next week with another episode. So, like always, comment, like, subscribe, and follow us. And we'll be faithful to bring another episode next week. All >> righty. We'll see you next time.