Episode 8

Hi, welcome to Words of This Life podcast. My name is Pablo and here we share real and impactful Christian stories from believers who love the Lord and his word. Through these testimonies, we want to showcase the virtues of the one who's called us out of darkness into his marvelous light. Virtues that are at work in everyday people, shaping their character, guiding their actions, and shining forth his life into the world. We're so happy you're here with us for this episode and let's get right into it. Hey guys, welcome back to the Words of This Life podcast. My name is Io and I'm here with my co-host Pablo and we have two special guests with us today. That's right. Uh David and Ree. Excited to be here. Great. Thank you for making the time to be here. Yeah, sure. This is going to be a fun episode. I I can already feel it. Yeah. So, uh today we're going to talk about uh knowing God and knowing God's will. Um, and we're just going to dive into David and Arisa's testimony and just glean the experiences that you guys have had and we'll see where the conversation goes. But I think it's always appropriate to just start from the beginning. Uh, how did you come to know the Lord? What kind even what kind of household did you grow up in? And, uh, when did you receive the Lord and when did he become real to you? So, cool. Yeah, I'll start. Uh I grew up my my father uh went to church. Um and I uh went with him. This was really a one of the closest experiences I had with my dad. Uh it was something that you only he and I shared. Then my my mom um didn't go to church. So uh this was really a time that uh I could get to know him. And uh so a lot of my association with church was was just with my dad was just this is an activity we do together. And and that was until I was about 11 or and I I began to realize that uh through my dad speaking to me that that this was uh a relationship that he didn't go to church because that was a thing that he did. He went to church to uh to know God in a deeper way and to know him in the other believers that he that we went to church with. Uh my dad I think he recognized that a lot of my pursuit towards you know going to church with him you know doing all doing all these things with him was based on my my love for him and and he was always very careful to not I would say take advantage of that to so when when I asked him what it meant to be saved he told me of But he was very careful not to pressure me in any way cuz I think he knew that if he told me that I should do this, I would do it for him. Sure. But not for the Lord. Um and and eventually I did feel that I needed that there was something that I I needed something. Uh I needed a savior. And uh the same was true of my baptism when I was I was baptized about a year later and you know uh a number of of of other believers had been baptized at at church and it was kind of going around and I was driving back from church one day and I said, "Dad, I think I should be baptized." And he said, "Okay." Asked me why. And I I said, "You know, I I watched the people get baptized this week and it was really powerful and I feel like I I need something like that." Um and he he said, "Okay." Okay. And then he he didn't mention it again. And then the next week I same thing drive back I said I I want to be baptized. He said okay I haven't brought it up because I don't want to I want it to be your choice. And so anyway that was kind of um that was a real experience of of the Lord for me. Uh and then I I kind of proceeded in Did you say you were 11? Uh yeah. By the time I was baptized I was 12. 12. Yeah. And I proceeded in a pretty good way until I went to college. Um, you know, skip forward a little bit. And, uh, when I got to college, you know, I I wouldn't say I fell away, but I I just let other things uh compete with the Lord for my time, for my interest. uh you know I would still go to go to church meetings but I would also you know I had a lot of friends who were very much not meeting um involved in a lot of drinking and things and and uh so I I I had this kind of I felt that I had a very good balance so to speak of well I'm I'm still doing something towards God but I'm also still doing something uh you know that's for me um you know and this kind of proceeded in this uh parallel structure until I uh I got to go on a trip um when through the university uh we went to Europe. We were you know studying we were studying World War II and European front and we got to spend some time in various you know battlefields and wow we felt very um felt very scholarly it felt very prestigious and um we did a lot of drinking and partying as you might expect also. Uh, and I was on my flight back uh from that trip and I um I was I was actually I was scrolling through pictures on my phone of all the all the very you know like all the cool academic sites you know the you know the the American cemetery there in Normandy and uh you know the there's a a monument to a a the Soviet soldiers the Soviet fallen in Berlin kind of a a monument of of conquering that's still there. It's uh um and well at least was then uh and I uh you know I was also looking at pictures that I had taken when I've been partying and stuff and I you know I I I just had this sense I I had this sense within me that it just it was it was like the bottom fell out. It was like missing a step on on the stairs and you just have this sense what if what if this is it? Like I just went on this great trip, you know, the university paid for it. Yeah. I I had this great time. I was so was with all my intelligent friends. We were doing having so much fun. You know, we're exercising our mind, you know. Uh we would later say our flesh was really getting let loose. It was it was great. But what if I peaked when I was 21? Yeah. And I I just had this I'm you know, we're over the Atlantic. I just had this sense of dread like how am I going to top this experience? Am I just going to be looking back to this for the rest of my life? And I had this realization or I had this sense uh and it was from God in my spirit. I I know now, but at the time I just said, "If there's anything real, it has to be God." Uh if there's if there's anything that's going to be a an ongoing a thoroughgoing an ongoing source of fulfillment and satisfaction, it has to be God. Wow. And so when I got back, I I you know, I I reached out to uh some some of the the people I went to church with. Yeah. And uh you know, I said, "I want God to be real to me." M and uh you know uh what some some one person said you know was very like oh wow I didn't realize you were having all you know this struggle and then another another dear brother said yeah I know that's he says something like I've been praying for this for a long time and so that's why things happen. Yeah, I do believe it. So, uh you know, um I uh completed school. Uh I went uh to a Bible school after that. Uh I just, you know, I didn't certainly didn't go to school with the intention of uh that being my post-graduate plans. But you know, the Lord really stirred in me um to give more of my time to to to give myself to really be uh to to be for him to stud to to study and to dedicate my time to know him. So I did that and uh you know I again I I felt like I kind of hit a plateau kind of like I did after I baptized. I was baptized and it it was very good. It was in a good spot. And I would say the next and really kind of the the last like watershed moment in my life was uh I I went um I went to love. Uh, I was helping that, you know, the church there was doing a a big event for their campus group and I I had gotten a chance to volunteer to go and and cook cook barbecue and we were we had been there, we had cooked all day and and I so I just kind of sat in the back of, you know, one of the like the last session and the the the college students there were speaking about Noah like the the the the weekend time had been about Noah, about knowing, you know, Noah had this vision that God was doing something and, you know, for however many years he he built the ark. There was no evidence of rain. He just had a speaking from God. This is happening. You need to build the ark. And as these, you know, 19, 20, 22 year olds are speaking, I'm God is speaking to me. Are you building an ark or are you are you Are you living in parallel again? Are you just happy to be, you know, happily married, have a nice job, and go to church? Are you happy to have is that enough for you or are you building the ark? Wow. Do you is do you go to church because you've seen that I am doing something or are you going to church because it feels nice for you? And wow. Yeah, it was it was pretty strong. Pretty strong, bro. I was, you know, it's a long drive back from Leach to Austin. And let me tell you, I was uh I was sitting in the back of this pickup truck. I mean, it was in the cab, but I was sitting in the I was sitting in the cab. We were pulling the the barbecue pit back and the brothers in the front are talking big old storm, and I'm just I'm praying and I'm just kind of I don't know what to say to God. I don't know what's But I Anyway, ever since then, the Lord has really taken me to a a different spot. Wow. And I hope I have not reached a plateau that he has to kind of shake me out of again. But Wow. Yeah, that's that's really kind of been my my experience. That's Yeah, that's I I enjoy hearing about the um the two instances where you've mentioned kind of two structures or two parallels, you know, like God sometimes, you know, the Lord calls us and then we we kind of like go to a parallel life away from his calling and then sometimes we merge again and event. Anyways, that's wonderful that the Lord in his mercy kind of called you. Yeah. And just that's really encouraging. Yeah. You know, I mean feel like I've monologued for a while now, but I just what one one thing is, you know, the Lord's calling to me like he's speaking to me in the airplane, speaking to me through those those brothers there in love. Those like the call when he spoke to me there on that airplane didn't lose its impact. What happened was I just kind of started to make like I carved out space for myself. Yeah. So I to me I feel when the Lord calls us uh this needs to remain that front and center. This needs to be you know even we need to consider you know praying that that our the call that the Lord gives to us would remain as the go as the the first fame in our pursuit. We're we're pursuing him not because it's the thing we've done in the past. We're pursuing him because he is calling us right now as he called us at whatever moment that was. Amen. Amen. That's wonderful. Yeah. should go on with Yeah. Um, so my uh I grew up also in a a Christian home of sorts. We were uh consider us we were Christians or Caster goers where Christmas and Easter was when we attended church. Um so first time I hear that. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so we attended pretty regularly when I was really young and then like uh sports and taxes and stuff like that. We just it was like okay Sundays are no longer for uh going to church. It was for football either watching or playing it. Um so anyways I go I always considered myself a Christian but um you know wasn't a regular church goer. Wasn't really taken that seriously. And about freshman year of high school time which I'm sure is the case for a lot of uh freshmen in high school. I started to uh do things some of the things that David was talking about in his college time where you know just started getting into drinking and partying and stuff like that and still would have called myself a Christian the whole time but uh was not the center of my life and I was living as if there was no God essentially um and was really enjoying it. Lots of fun and excitement and uh but yeah uh lack of God at that point but I was um part of a Christian ministry called Young Life. Um, basically everybody at my school was part of it. They were just like kind of the thing to do on Friday nights or Monday nights depending on your age group. Um, it was lots of fun. Like we'd go play sports, sing. Um, there always be a little message at the end. But um, they have the best uh, summer camps in the world in my opinion. So always always planning on going to camp that summer. Seventh grade, eighth grade, nth grade and 10th grade I went to camp. And at this point, I'm probably in the lowest point when it comes to the like just a a life full of the flesh. Um, and uh I'm not feeling guilty at all at this point. But, you know, looking back, I was like, yeah, that was I was in the pits. Um, and I heard the gospel for about the hundth time in my life. But that time, for some reason, God was like calling me out. He hearing about Christ and his dying on the cross. I just had the most stark realization that he like I could like feel his suffering and realize that that was because of how I'm living right now and just felt so much guilt and like oh how like what I'm doing today and what I'm living for today is the reason he had to go through this. Um, and so it it was this experience that night where the the weight of my sin. I felt it for the first time. And then also that night is the first like I felt it all lifted like he paid the price. And I just had a very um emotional night and experience of receiving Christ as my savior for the first time. Um, and knew that something had to change in my life. So, I went to my uh kind of mentor there and said, "Hey, so like what do I do now? Like I know like I I've confessed to him kind of how I've been living. He might have already known all that, but I told him like I know I can't I've got this girlfriend. I probably need to break up with her." Like all that stuff. And he probably told me a lot of things, but the one thing that he told me that stuck with me was you need to uh read the Bible every day, every morning. So, uh, and he started doing that with me, but I I really took it to heart and maybe one or two days since then, since I was 16, that hasn't happened. But basically, since I was 16, I've been able to read the Bible every morning. Uh, that's just testimony. Yeah. And, you know, the Lord just had a ton of mercy on me because it is so easy to uh have that kind of camp high and then go back to your old life two weeks later. But the Lord just had a way of uh kind of replacing my friends. Like I stopped hanging out with them. Like it was like a hard cut off, but he got me other friends who were believers who had similar experiences within a week or two. And so my social life became affiliated with Christ. And um also we really wanted to pursue the Lord together. And what that meant for us was, you know, we instead of hanging out late every night on the weekends and even sometimes the weekdays, it was we're going to go to the coffee shop in the morning when it opens and we're going to read our Bibles or read some Christian books. Um, and I just I was not a reader before then, but uh like I was a cliffotes or whatever we used back then, but um I just fell in love with the Bible and Christian truth and doctrine. And uh not exaggerating to say that we'd pro I'd probably spend 4 hours every morning before school cuz we get there at 5:00 when it opened and then school started at 9:00 just reading stuff. 10th grade. 11th grade. 10th. Yeah. Going into 11th started 11th grade. 11th grader reading 4 hours a day. Yes. It started with less. It was more chatting and then reading together. But um yeah, it's like the most responsible thing I've ever ke Well um anyways I just I just was voracious reader because the truth was fascinating to me like I just this experience just happened to me and I want to learn everything about this Jesus and the Bible and I want to understand it and there's a big looming question right after that too which is like okay what church do I go to like what's there's all these denominations what's the right one I asked my mentor that and he didn't tell me thankfully like at his church or something he was just like ah it's tough question I just had a lot of questions bubbling up as I was trying to understand the Bible. Um, and I think by the end of high school, so all that stuff was great. Uh, but it also by the end of my senior year, I had lots of opinions about what the Bible was about. Was sorry, was most of the Bible reading alone or was it in groups with your parents or with It was a lot of it. Um, I'd be like with the a couple of my friends that I mentioned earlier, but we'd kind of be all reading our own thing. Sometimes we'd be reading the same thing and having more fellowship about it. But I went from like reading like Crazy Love by Francis Chan, some like classic Christian books and like Bonhaofer to then like a systematic theology book and like you know Calvin and stuff like that. Um, and so like I uh it was all great in a sense, but also like I said made me super I was like a hardcore Calvinist by the end of high school and also was a firm believer in the charismatic like movement and gifts of the spirit. Um, you know that they're active today. People are still doing healings and miracles and that kind of stuff. Not so much like Pentecostal but charismatic. The nuance doesn't matter right now. like point is came to college full of uh my own opinions about what the Bible meant. Um and in college I uh met some uh Christians who really helped me to understand uh what the Bible's actually talking about. Uh cuz I was picking out these kind of side doctrines and really honing them in. It's like I meet with my buddies and it's like hey so do you realize like God's will is the only will like you know your will really isn't a factor like I'm just like picking arguments with people with my Calvinism like yeah so so darn but um you know that's not the the central purpose that God is trying the message he's trying to convey in the word. Sure. Yeah. And I got a lot of help to see like what is Christ what is God trying to do today? Um, and that just changed my life. It was like I just had this kind of puzzle pieces of the Bible. I knew some verses that supported my doctrines, but like the full picture. I couldn't quite see it. Um, and I just really got a lot of help to see like these lines in the Bible and like wow what it's talking about and what he's been doing from like see things that kind of like little seeds planted in Genesis and then like they're picked up on throughout and then Christ comes as the fulfillment of these things but they're still being taken all the way to Revelation. And um I just I probably was in more like Bible studies in college than in classes um just cuz it was like fascinating to me. So, off. Um, anyways, I'm probably spending too much time on all this, but uh college was awesome. Uh, there were some it was ups and downs, but that I feel like that's kind of a theme through it. And, um, yeah, I also actually ended up going to a kind of postgrad Bible school um, after working for a bit. Um, almost was going to go to Germany to um, be like a missionary, serve the Lord there. um that didn't end up working out. Um but I fully believe like the Lord wanted me here where I am now and that was only like a few years ago and now I'm married, happily married man and uh newly married man. And uh yeah, I think that's a good like overview I suppose. Yeah. Yeah. One thing that uh you guys both mentioned, and I'm only going to ask you guys this just so the viewer knows, these two uh were podcasters as well at one point. And their their podcast, which is it was called What does the Bible say about that? It's now the Bible podcast. Check it out on Apple. Put a link in the box. Oh gosh. But your guys' podcast really helped me when I was in when I was in a student. Um I I the truth that you guys enjoyed you definitely gave it to like gave it to me through those podcast episodes. But you guys both mentioned that you know fellowship in college um gave you kind of like a truth um some vision of the Bible that has ruled your life. Mhm. And you know, if it's needing having the the bottom taken out from you or being opinionated but also kind of confused. Yeah. Um what happened? You know, what what truths what part of the Bible was like just so striking that you had these 180 changes? Mhm. Yeah. It's uh there are lots of truths that really like jump out when you said that, but I think one specifically is kind of what I was hinging at earlier about like the central focus of the Bible. Like there's lots of interesting doctrines and verses you can glink from the Bible like, you know, is baptism via immersion or sprinkling. There's kind of a hint of sprinkling in Titus, but most of them seem like immersion in Acts and in Matthew and or you know the predestination stuff like Romans 9 is Calvinist favorite chapter and it's most confusing to anyone who's honest I think. But um yeah realizing so one of the truths really stuck out to me was this thought that God's purpose is not to save sinners period like as like that's the central focus just rescuing people from damnation. Um which really kind of was maybe my central truth. I mean, I talked a lot about predestination, but that was like the core of the gospel to me. But realizing that God actually created man with a purpose in mind before he had even sinned. Uh, and that purpose being his desire to be united to man, to have a relationship with man, and to transform him into this creature that's um not just an animal on on the on a low plane, but someone that can be with him for eternity um to give us immortality, as Paul says, and eternal life. and um realizing there's more than just the cross and my repentance from to be saved and like now I should give money to church and be a good person to preach the gospel like oh God has something past the the you know Goltha that he wants to do in me. Um that was really transformative for me of like not just understanding the Bible but direction for my life like oh this is what I need to be doing or I need to be involved in this somehow. Mhm. Yeah. Big truth. Yeah. Yeah. Uh well, you know, the thing that like I mentioned, the thing that really that like that I missed the step on I missed the step on the stairs was uh this question of meaning was and you know that touches on what Reese just said, but you know I one of the things that really touched me was that I had seen people that I had gone to church with who I knew had meaning in their life And I thought I had meaning when I was doing all of these both you know academic I like to emphasize it wasn't all just partying but um you know I was I I thought that I was I thought they had they had meaning because you know their meaning is church and their meaning is God and that's wonderful good for them but my meaning is this other thing and that's fine. And when I suddenly had this realization that there is a there is a an a terminus there's a finite end date of any meaning that is that is derived from the earth I realized that meaning has to be a lasting meaning could only be with God something someone eternal and so you know people what I saw and this is coming back to your question about truth is I I realized kind of retroactively I had I had unconsciously registered these people are touching the reality of some really high and common verses among us you know like Galatians 2:20 and Philippians 1 for to me to live is Christ and my you know my spirit had kind of absorbed even without my conscious recognition that that person that person that I see he's full of meaning Because Christ is his life. His life is not just for Christ. Christ has become his life. And so that's what that's what the purpose of that person's existence is. It's the purpose of my existence. And my meaning is going to be unfulfilled and finite and temporal. And I'll be just be chasing the next high until I accept this is the meaning. And so yeah, the truth that Christ that we were created, that Christ would fill us, he would become our life, he would become how we live, how we interact with one another would be Christ. Yeah. Wow. It's really good, man. Yeah. I I was I wanted to go back to um David in your testimony, the moment in love when you you heard, you know, about Noah from those those young believers there and uh what did you what was the summary kind of message there from from God uh in that moment? What do you think? You mentioned, you know, God speaking to you, are you here for me or are you here for yourself or you here for me? Yeah. How the has God built up on that revelation? Uh has there been more to that revelation that started there? And what what what do you think really God was hinting at there? Yeah, that as well. Yeah. You know, uh well, I mean, so we look at the at Noah and Noah, God says, "Surely I'm going to flood the earth." And uh so build an ark uh so for the preservation of yourself, your family, and life. Uh, and that vision governed how Noah lived. So, everybody else was doing something. I I've often wondered, this might be off topic, but was I mean, was did Noah still farm or like what was he doing for food? I mean, like it does mention I think 120 years I think that was the eat something. Yeah. But, uh, he was building the ark. But, um, yes. So, that was that was the purpose of Noah's life was based on that vision. And that vision, you know, certainly that would save Noah, but it was about s preserving life on the earth, preserving the animals, preserving his family. So, the thing that really spoke to me that God spoke to me. I want to be clear, this wasn't like an audible voice, but it was pretty clear in my spirit. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a that's a Reese level experience. Uh but is are you are you doing church for for yourself? Are you are you going because it makes you feel like uh well this is a thing that good people do and the fact that I do it means I'm a good person. This is uh you know this is a place where I have some community some social interaction and people like to do that. Or are you doing this because I God am doing something. I am I want people who are building the ark. Yeah. I want people who are living according to the vision of what I've said in the Bible that that I want I want a people I want a church that represents me on the earth. So are you just among them? Are you just among the people that are living for that or are you living for that? Wow. Mhm. I don't know if that answers your question, but yeah. Uh, no, that's that's good. I I think maybe I don't know all believers, but most believers have that moment. You know, you you find Christ, but eventually you you find like what is Christ after? Yeah. Like it happened to me, too. I mean, I don't want to this is about you all. I don't want to share too much, but um I was I was in the book of Ephesians and then I just realized after reading it and being in it, this is years ago. I just realized, man, when you kind of like take a peek in God's heart and you just see what's in his heart, it's all the church. Like, I just realized it's it's every time it's the church, right? There's something there. You know, he he reveals himself to you, but when he wants to reveal something else is the church. So, anyways, how about you, Ree? When did that is there a moment I don't know that when like Yeah. We went from Christ to what Christ wants, you know? Yeah. Well, I think um I'll answer that, but I think it related like it's I think more I feel like more believers and this was certainly the case for me and this what all of my friends and I would ask all the time the typical question and you know there's a famous book I forget like a purpose- driven life what's his name uh anyways very famous Christian book Warren yeah Warren yeah many Christians ask what is God's purpose for my life what is God's will for my life what am I supposed to do I supposed to be a doctor? What college do I go to with my question in high school? And uh what you know, it's like am I a missionary or this or that? And the question never really dawned on me until it was kind of presented to me that like what does God want? What is God interested in in doing? Um and really once you figure that out, then it's really it's a lot easier to figure out what do I do now? Like if I figure out God's interested in building a giant ark on the earth, I should go help Noah like the structure of this thing. That's a pretty simple like I can figure out God's will for my life. It's whatever over there. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I'm over there if I'm like he his the will for Noah is the ark. I need to go farm. Like I'm going to be dead, you know? Um so I did have a moment in college, but it was like just a a a whole change in the question I was asking. of like what is God's will for my life to what is God interested in? What is he doing? And the church being kind of I think the the answer there with a lot of nuance and details around that. But yeah, I think one thing that's interesting is that you actually posed that question to me at one point. Really? Yeah. Uh it was it wasn't anyway you just said you most people say what is God's purpose for my life? But then you were like, "Let's rephrase like let's just edit that question. What is God's purpose?" Full stop. Yeah. And I remember that was like a what? Yeah. I've never thought about that, you know. Um but anyway, um so you guys you guys saw something when you were in college and you guys both decided uh you know, seminary, uh Bible school, some kind of like program to give yourselves to the Lord and what he's doing. That that was what the Lord was leading you to do at that point. But then you get to a point where you leave that program and now you're back with a greater sense of independence. uh what did those first years look like uh leaving the program and how did the Lord continue to train you to to hear his voice and know his will and follow where he was leading you you know yeah uh you're right that was a uh you use the word that was a greater sense of independence and that was definitely my experience you know uh uh for myself I um and also Ree actually we both came back to where we'd been before. You know, we both came back to Austin. We'd come from here. Um and so there was definitely, you know, there was a lot of a lot of pre-existing, you know, not necessarily not negative things, but uh things that you you know, relationships and and and people that you don't have the thought like I didn't have the thought that I needed to check with God about. I I know how to interact with this person. I know how to interact with this situation because I've done it before. And uh that kind of that is a it's a real learning. It's a ongoing learning for me that we need to be actively checking with God about everything about how we how we interact with other people. Believe it or not, God, the sovereign one, hasn't a plan for for all of our interactions. And yeah, it's a good thing he's infinite because there's a lot of interaction. But but God has an intention in how we interact with co-workers, with people around us, with our spouses, and we can check with him or we can just try to operate on our own. And anyway, all that to say, uh, that was a big point of learning. I had some I had some failures when I first got back and I I had, you know, I had some existential thoughts about, did I, why did I do this? I spent two years, I gave myself to the Lord and now I'm just as bad as I was before. I'm worse than the Benny thing. Uh and uh but I feel like that time that adjustment from a kind of a structured environment, a specific consecration that I had given myself uh to be under to be for the Lord uh and now in a a to consecrate in a much broader environment uh really in a sense it's easier to consecrate yourselves when you are only have a structure around you. Uh but when you need to when you need to consecrate yourself and no one but you and the Lord are there to check on it, it's it's uh it takes more it takes a deeper realization of what the Lord is doing. So that was something that the Lord kind of worked on me in the first two or so two or three years that I was uh after I came back. Um but yeah. Yeah. And I mentioned this briefly in my uh testimony part, but um I was actually pretty I was planning on going to Germany after I finished actually. Um that was after uh you know the question what does God want me to do? What's over my life is still a legitimate question like building the ark is not as clear as in Noah's day, right? Like where are we going to be doing the building and um in what capacity? So after a lot of, you know, prayer and consideration and then fellowship with different Christians that I really respected both here and in Germany that I'd gotten connected to. It just seemed like that was where the Lord was taking me. Um, and so I just like it was a little kind of a scary thought transition. I I know as much German as anyone who's done Duolingo for six months would know. And um it was just like I don't like it wasn't like I'm excited and thrilled about a foreign adventure. It was like that's where I felt like God wanted me even though it wouldn't be comfortable or nice. Um but back to the thought of like what is God's will for himself once I think you're aligned with that you have a clear like understanding and and controlling vision revelation like this is what it's all about. then God's leading you in the little things where you would be what you would do um are less uh important I suppose or even you know that's right Paul he led Paul to Jerusalem and he got imprisoned and then you know was stuck in Roman imprisonment for years and it's like was it God's will for him to go to Jerusalem like well he wrote you know Philippians and Ephesians or maybe not Philippians kosh anyways he like wrote some of the greatest books in the New Testament in that time. Um, so I think all I'm trying to say is uh God is perfectly within his right to lead us down a road that causes us to be hit by an 18-wheeler. Um, and like if that was his will, like like the point is not getting to the destination, it's being in in the the in what God's doing on the earth. So yeah, I felt like I was to go to Germany. a lot of things happened where that just became impossible and it was really devastating for me for a while. Um, but looking back on it now, I just seen the Lord's been able to do a much deeper work in parts of my soul that weren't open to him at the time. Yeah. Um, and also I got to meet my lovely wife in the in the meantime. Um, so yeah, that I' there's been a lot of learnings on my part of like what does it actually mean to be in this like vision of what God's doing? It means like a lot of suffering and a lot of like feeling like you're going the right way and then getting hit and then um but God's doing his central work that whole time and that's really what he's interested in. Not putting me in the right country or the right job. Yeah. Yeah. you know on that just uh you know like you mentioned when looking back you're seeing the Lord was able to do so much stuff in you and obviously arrange for your your dear wife yeah for which are very happy uh you know I I have consistently been touched by uh two verses at the end of Genesis you know I'm going to share but it's uh you know so Jacob arrives in in Egypt and he says as uh and he uh Joseph brings him before before Pharaoh and and says to him, you know, he introduces uh Pharaoh and Pharaoh kind of doesn't really seem to know what to say. So he says, you know, how how old are you? And and and Jacob says, you know, uh few and evil have been the days of my sojouring and they have not attained to the days of my fathers. And but then in the next chapter, he is blessing the sons of Joseph and he says, "The angel, the God who has shepherded me all the days of my life until this day, bless the boys." And so the boys, you know, we have this in our in our daily experience. It may seem that we are in the few and evil, but we look back and we realize that that has been God's shephering to us. He has shepherded us all of the days, including the ones we thought were few and evil were also God shephering to us. Yeah. So, a lot of times we are stuck only in the present. And of course, we're we're finite. We're stuck in time. This is the thing that we can see and it's it sucks. Yeah. But we but we realize and the Lord is building faith in us. Yeah. Through our experiences that in the midst of those things, we are being shepherded. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I've always really appreciated those those that pairing of verses. That's really good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just this came up in in another podcast um uh episode, but you know, really what I want to say is likeyou helped me a lot during those years when you felt like you were being hit by an 18-wheeler. And uh I heard uh before it's somebody told me it's like sometimes the Lord has a a heart to gain the worker and even transform the worker. Um and that was your experience. But you know, just like you said, while um Jacob or Israel at the time said those days were evil, he was able to bless someone. I felt like you you blessed me during my college years and I didn't know you were like suffering. It's it's the craziest thing. There was this uh experience when we were skiing. I don't know if you remember this. Oh yeah. Yeah. The first time I was skiing, oh my gosh, it was so bad. It was so bad. Like I kept falling, but Reese stayed. you stay and you kept picking me up. I kept falling. You kept picking me up. Everyone else was just Yeah. going. But that meant a lot to me because when I was at that trip, I I felt like a an impostor. Like I wasn't supposed to be there. And honestly, each time you pick me up, it it felt like the Lord was saying, "I'll keep going." Like these brothers will keep you keep you going. They'll pick you up. Um uh but anyway, like and then we had those those uh those uh Bible studies towards the end of my senior year about church history. Mhm. And honestly that set the course of my life. I saw that I'm in this like divine history. Wow. But um in a earlier podcast we said that you know you don't know what happens on the residual domino effect if you say yes to the Lord in the moment. But while he was gaining, he was also gaining me too. And it was like Anyway, that I'm just I'm just enjoying what you guys are sharing. But that's real. Yeah, that's real. Anyway, amen. Um, you know, a lot of our viewers, I think some, a good number, I think, are in the early 20, mid20s, early 30s, you know, like either finishing school and facing some decisions in life, you know, three of which I just wanted to see if you have any experiences on these. where to live, where to marry, what job to take. You know, I saw these three. If if if Texas and X sales are the answer, there are first everyone moved to Austin. No. Um follow Lord. But yeah, on these three topics, uh these truths that the Lord has revealed in your life along the way, who he is, what he's doing on the earth, how has how has the Lord Yeah. when you face these decisions where to live, where not to live, you know, how has the Lord been involved with these truths operating in you about what the Lord is doing? There's really I don't think there's a simple answer. Um because God exists outside of time and doesn't usually speak audibly to us. Um I think there's a couple of like key principles that have been like really central in my life when I'm trying to make those kinds of decisions. Um, one of the first is, you know, the Lord. If we come to the Lord, uh, for these big decisions and like those are the main times. We're kind of like I mentioned the cresteraster goer. We're kind of like the that type of scenario for wanting to interact with God. Like I'll come to God when there's a big decision to be made and then I'll put him to the side until the next one comes up. Um, and a lot of times if you're that kind of a Christian, which I have been several times, it's like you find he's pretty uh mute at that point. Like God's hiding himself from me. Um, so I think a key for this is having a regular time with the Lord where we are getting these little speakings. And by when speakings, I mean like shining light on a verse in the Bible or putting someone on your heart when you're praying to then pray for them and like learning tag because God in my experience isn't usually audible and clear, but there's like a sense within and there's light shining and there's just direction where it's like I have there's a verse in Romans that it's called Roman or Paul talks about a life and peace as like a guiding principle. Yeah. Um, so learning to kind of get this sense with the Lord in our regular mundane lives really helps with the bigger decisions later. It's good. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I totally agree. Uh um, you know, I it's it's just on your point, it's important to remember that the Lord himself is a person. Totally. And if you know if I have a you know if I if I only speak to you when I need something it's going to you know that that might make me feel a little uh used. Oh yeah. So you know uh I well I won't expose too much about uh my my my courtship with my now dear wife. Um but you know I I felt that the Lord was putting this person on my heart and I I did not I I didn't know what to do. So I did uh I did so I did one thing and I I went and I I shared with a brother that I was very close with and I said hey brother this I don't know what this means. Uh, I mean, this is, you know, this she's she's younger than me. She's my my wife is five years younger than me. Um, and you know, that's, you know, I'm 26, she's 21. That's a big gap right now. I mean, now that I'm 36 and she's 31, it doesn't feel as sick. But, uh, uh, at this school at the time, yes, she was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's she was had just completed her junior year. Uh, you know, I mean, she's still got a year of school. This is not the the regular timing of things. Uh what is happening here? The technical rule is divide by two add eight. She is just in the range. All right. Sorry. Keeping but so anyway I shared with this brother um that I was very close with and I said I don't know what to do. I I like and I kind of expected him to say yeah you should stop thinking about that. Uh but what he said was we should pray about this. So we prayed. Uh and then he said, "Now you need to pray by yourself a lot." And so and and then I did this and I you know later on I I said, "You know, it's been this period of time I've been praying. I still feel this way about this woman." And I and he said, "Well, then we we met again. We prayed again." And he said, "You know, really, we're just doing what John says." So John in his epistle he tells us that uh he says that I'm writing to you because I want you to have fellowship with me with with the John the writer and he says and indeed our fellowship is with the father. M so he was this brother kind of without giving me the the background was bringing me into this simultaneous fellowship where I'm connecting to God personally but I'm also connecting to God through the other believers and so there's a fellowship between us there's a fellowship between God and myself and then together we're going to God so a lot of times in my experience this is how the Lord Lord speaks is in when we involve kind of all of this these aspects of both his speaking through himself the head directly to us and his speaking through the other members. Yeah. Um, you know, of course, you know, we we should be, you know, wise about who we open our situation to, of course, but uh I in my experience, a lot of times the Lord has, in a sense, it's like he's reserved his feelings, kind of held back his his response until I've been open with at least one other member because, you know, God's view is that we we his church are we are a corporate body. There's there is a relatedness between the members and if it's if I could get you know all my answers quotequote just from the head then I would never need to bring the real me the real situation to the other brothers and so the Lord in this way I feel that he he is waiting for us in a in many cases to to open things to him directly and then to open them to the a member of his body also and to pray together in that way. So, I mean, I'm not trying to make a method out of this, but this has been my experience, you know, uh uh I one more smaller example. I I I took a promotion at work several couple years ago now. And um I I was really kind of hesitant about it cuz the job that the lower position I had had given me a kind of a a shortened schedule so I could really I had a whole day on Mondays where I could be with be with the brothers and you know get into the word, pray. It was was it was great and I would have to give that up to take this other position. And I opened it to a, you know, a group that was meeting at my home at that time on every Tuesday night. And I said, you know, this position, I think I'm going to get it if I apply for it, you know, and we prayed together. And nobody said, well, you should definitely do it or you should definitely not do it. But afterwards, I we after our prayer, I had some peace like you said. I had I had a feeling of peace as I considered the position, I considered the application. I just had this feeling of peace like go forward, do it. And that I I really took that as the Lord's answer through the prayer of you know this group that I was close with. Yeah. I I want to add to the um because I you reminded me of experience I had when I was uh I was working after college before going to the Bible program and um I just got this the sweetest job out of college. Like it wasn't a glor glamorous job when I got it but then we got acquired. there's all this growth and then I was able to get promoted really quickly to where I was doing really well and but I I committed like I want to go to this program once I've paid off my student loans and it was like 8 months into the job I paid off the loans it was like done I'm free to go and uh there's a verse I think it's in Jeremiah I'm wrong word says uh the heart is deceitful above all things who can know it Um, and so I just appreciate what David said. It's like uh the being in Christian community and with brothers and sisters that uh we can pray with and be held accountable with is crucial because our heart is easily deceived and deceives us. Yeah. Um because there is the Lord in our in our being that he has the ability to speak to us, but we also have this evil fleshly heart that he's trying to transform that can be deceiving us. And so I'm have this great job and then all these excuses come up. You know, if I work another year, I could pay my way through this program myself and have a little bit stored up and like why wouldn't I do that? Like it makes sense to just, you know, even though I committed like once my loans are paid, I'm gone. The love of money is a root of all evils, right? And I was saying this noble reason how I would use this job for the next year, but really I just liked making money. Um, and I was with this brother who I'd been fellowshipping with this whole time and just he was able to speak kind of a frank word to me that made it really clear and like shine light into my deceitful heart and it was done and I quit the job went and the Lord was very gracious to give me a little outward sign in this moment cuz uh that company got acquired by a private equity group and the whole Austin office was gone in two months after I quit. It was just like the Lord I think he did that just for my sake to show me. Yeah, you should follow pastor spirit and wow. Yeah, that's good. So, do you two have a like if you're going through a situation that needs some fellowship? Do you have a go-to person that you have a person that is a brother or Yep. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's changed over the years. There's always I feel like I find that so good that you have someone that immediately comes to head that you can think of going to. Mhm. What would you say to a young believer who maybe doesn't have someone, you know, maybe is a, you know, Sunday going to church and it's just there and maybe parents are not believers or whatever and they don't have someone. Well, how would you or or they even find it hard to open up, right? I don't know if you guys were like that at one point where it was hard to open up, but like what tips do you have? Because if you don't have that fellowship, Yeah. you're living like a 50% Christian life, you know? But anyway, our fellowship was with one another and with the father like David said. Yeah. Yeah,I I just briefly say I mean I I've always found it more helpful to fellowship with someone who's a little bit older than me, a little more experienced and seems to have been around the block a time or two with the Lord. There's just a lot of like uh wisdom and rich like deposits of the spirit saints where that God's been working in for years, you know. Um, and a lot of times it's a lot easier to approach them like going to a fellow believer and like opening up that that was always harder to me. But like going to my youth minister in high school or you know someone is kind of more of in a mentor role. It was always like they're looking for that like they want to shepherd Christians. So I think that's a great place to start. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean my first thought when you were you were talking Pablo is I it's really good uh it's really good to bring that matter to the Lord you know if you are I mean I know it has seems like a copout answer to say that you should pray about it but in reality this is you know that's certainly this is something the Lord wants you know we see throughout especially the writings of Paul the emphasis on the body and of the the other members of considering the other members you know Corin Thians he talks about this in Philippians he talks about this and he says so this is definitely on God's heart and I would say if you if you offer a prayer like this Lord who can I be joined to Lord give me someone else that I can pray with certainly that is something that's a prayer God is really excited to answer uh but and you know how how can you open to someone well I mean certainly I I it's I have that's something I I struggle with um even to the present. But one of the things that really helps me is like the brother I was thinking about I won't say who that is but the brother who I was thinking about uh I know that whatever I share with him is he's going to take seriously and he's going to pray about it. M um so knowing that the knowing the other person that you're speaking to has this kind of view that that our lives should be for for Christ in the church. Yeah. It means that whatever you you bring to them is that's that's how they're going to take it is that and they're they're going to pray about it. They're going to take it seriously and they'll pray in a uh way that will join your problem. Yeah. to the Lord and his the Lord the spirit the supply of the spirit to to you in your situation. Yeah, that's really good. Just I agree with you know both of your points. Re someone older to me that's so true. you know it has to be someone has more experience um and then uh to pray about it and I and I and I feel that you know one of you mentioned of that you know when you go to the Lord and it's only when you have needs it's you almost get a non-response right yeah I feel like with members of the body it's the same thing you don't just want to go then you know you want to be known by someone a way that is continual you know like totally I have this practice whenever there's a conference at church or something I always find this brother and I just have a meal with him or something, you know, just so that whether there's something going on or not, sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't. There's still the the just the continual fellowship, you know, like he just knows me, he sees my face, like, okay. And then when something's going on, then it's not as awkward, you know, bring something up, you know? So, for sure. Yeah. I think anyways, I find that that I I don't think I would be here if it wasn't for those relationships that you guys are mentioning. Yeah. Um, you guys both mention something in your decision- making that might be foreign to the viewer. Um, but when people uh are making decisions, they usually make a pros and cons list. They might make a costbenefit analysis, you know, matrix or uh they might look at the risk, their assumptions and all these things. But you guys talked about having peace. What is what does that mean? Where where did that term come from? And I was reminded when you were saying the procon list. There's a verse and David you can keep me honest here. I think it's in second Corinthians. It's either that or first. Um I think it's second but Paul is talking about hey it's somewhere else but he's talking about uh how there was a door open to him in Macedonia meaning like God has opened up a an avenue for the gospel to be preached. Um then it says Paul says but I had no peace. He said, "No peace in my spirit." Uh because Titus, my brother, had not come yet to give news about the Corinthians. But point is like environmentally the right move was to go forward into Macedonia and preach the gospel. But Paul inwardly in his spirit, it says, had no peace. Yeah. Um, and so I think that, yeah, the the practical list building, which I am guilty of doing that all the time, and it's actually really smart to do in practical situations, but with the Lord doesn't always work. Um, but there's like a it's hard to describe, but when you when you feel it or you know it, you know it. Um, peace is just a sense of like I, you know, I'm at peace. I People know peace. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Um, but that you can be praying about something and and I think it's also helpful. Sorry, there's another verse comes to mind where when Paul's going into uh into Europe for the first time. I think it's in Acts 16. It says he was going into I think Asia and the spirit stopped him. Yep. He was going into, you know, somewhere else and this spirit of Jesus prevented him. Yep. It's like Paul was moving but the Lord was able to stop him. So he was on the move but responsive. He wasn't just praying in a room until he got an answer. Um, it's like as we move, as we're doing going in a direction, there needs to be a a continual kind of uh conversation with the Lord. We're talking about like we're always in an open fellowship with him. So that whenever we feel that sense of lack of peace, maybe that's easier to feel than peace is the lack of peace. Then you know I'm off course. I need to turn. The Lord's turning me. The Lord can move a boat, right? That's moving. Turn it. That's moving. The static boat's really difficult to turn. Classic metaphor. Yeah. Yeah. Uh well, you know, I I kind of have a little log jam of different things I want to say, but uh you know, for the sake of time, uh you know, uh I I really appreciate this definition of peace. Um, so 2 Corinthians, sorry, 2 Thessalonians 3:16, uh, Paul concludes that that epistle with, uh, he says, "Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace continually in every way. The Lord be with you." And you know, uh, there peace is uh, equated to the presence of the Lord. M. So when when we experience uh just like Reese was saying, when we're taking a step, we know if the Lord is with us or not by the turmoil in us or the complete lack of it. Yeah. And when we when we sense the stillness, that's a real indication the Lord is with us. He as the Lord of peace is is with us. And you know just an interesting story on on um along with uh the the door in in uh second uh first second Corinthian second you're right that Titus you got me um is uh you know in in Mark Mark 1 uh the Lord has this you know he he's he's in a village he's doing he does a miracle and then he uh he's rises up very early while it was still night he went out and went away and Simon And those with him hunted for him and they found him and said to him, "All are seeking you." And you know, you would think this is such a great Jesus. This is the thing. Didn't you come to for the people to see you? And but the Lord the Lord went away and he prayed and he said and after he prayed, he said, "Situation's great, but uh we have to go." He said to them, "Let us go elsewhere into the nearby towns that I may preach there also because for this purpose I came out." And so, you know, we we don't follow God according to the environment. We follow God according to his speaking. You know, I can't tell you why the Lord did not stay where he was and preach to the the whole the whole town was seeking him. This was great. Yeah. Yeah. Peter hunted for him. I like that verb. Uh Uh and but God but the father told him we need to go to another village and the Lord just said that's right that's what we're going to do. So in our in all of our choices, we need to, you know, we need to consider like we were talking about uh the fellowship, the prayer, the the the peace, the feeling that the Lord is satisfied with our choice. And you know, the environment is the environment. The Lord, it's very easy for the Lord to uh to all to change the environment so easily. He's God. Yes. The thing that he won't intervene on is the human heart. Yeah. He for for him to for him to just you know uproot you know to say to this so easy yeah so easy so easy he's the creator but for he has said I'm I'm not going to to command the human heart to love me wow so that is the thing that we need to that is the thing that he is waiting on us is for our choice to love yeah you know I like this this point of peace I think it's so sweet that for for us to learn to do things but guided by peace I want I wonder if If this is related to this question on Pisa, you shared with us on a call we had earlier that at one point you were considering moving to another city. Yeah. To to strengthen the the community of the church there and eventually you didn't go or something like that I think. Is was there this peace experience there like having or not having peace in that? Can you share a little bit about your experience? Yeah. uh you know, we uh my my wife and I uh we had been we' prayed for a while about this matter about uh you know, the the church community here in Austin is really strong. You know, there's uh there's a specific city that we knew that had, you know, a much smaller group and that um you know, could we go? I mean, you know, we have some flexibility and uh you know, we went and visited and and you know, we as we were before we were going, as we were there, we of course were praying together and we prayed with the the believers there as well. And of course, they you know, they wanted us to come, but you know, uh they said, you know, we'd we can't tell you, you know, it's it has to be from from from the head. And you know, we we got back, we we felt very strongly that we needed to go and visit. And when we got back, I I didn't I didn't really have any feeling to go. Uh and I, you know, I I wondered, you know, is this just my choice? Is this like, oh, my my personal preference is to stay where I am, and I'm not allowing the Lord to speak. M but I we continued to pray and you know I was really confirmed by my wife having the same feeling that we had we we definitely needed to go and we wouldn't have peace until we visited there. Yeah. But once we once we came back we just had peace to remain where we are. And you know in a sense it's kind of like why why did the Lord have us go? I that's that's not my business. But that's right. But we went and we had peace to be there and we had peace to come back and we have had peace to remain in Austin. And that's you know you know one of the things that I and I know we're short on time here but I I I Okay. I love this verse uh in uh another verse Genesis about the matter of the going to get Rebecca. Yeah. and and and uh the servant there says you know I'm taking her back. Yeah. Is this and then Laban Laban he says he says the matter the fate is from Jehovah. Yeah. We cannot answer you good or bad. And this is really our this is how we make choices in in the Christian life is we realize if this is of God it's not a matter of right and wrong yes or no. It's it's question of is it of God or is it not? Amen. Yeah. And that's and God is expressed by peace in us, right? Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Amen. Wow. Well, I think we're almost there, huh? Time. Yeah. Should we do these questions, these last questions quick? Your your rap fire questions. We like to end each episode with a few rapid fire questions. So, just the first thing that comes to mind. Um, I'll just try to get through it really quickly, but favorite book in the Bible and why. Um, I'll go with second Corinthians. I have not heard that. Okay, go ahead. Uh, it's like the most autobiographical kind of book. A lot of in-depth stuff about Paul's life. And my favorite verse, uh, chapter 8, verse 9 is in there. Okay. Everyone can go look it up afterwards. Yeah, that was going to be the second question. You ruined it, but anyway. Uh, yeah, I'll go. I'll go John. Um just uh the the depth of what is revealed about the Lord. Um uh you know the real reading if you just read through John 17 viewers out there just read through John 17 prayerfully and it I mean wolf what a what a chapter. All right that's good. Um it's and the next one is the verse. Yeah. Favorite verse in Oh gosh. Uh I knew it was coming. Yeah. Um, apparently yours is John 17. No, I I mean the thing is I can't say I understand John 17. So uh you know I don't know what what all um I'm stalling here. Um yeah uh probably 1 Corinthians 1:30 uh that that of God you are in Christ Jesus. Yeah, wonderful deep verse. Well brothers, thank you so much. Wow. What's up? What was your favorite verse today? 2 Corinthians 89. What does it say? It talks about like a definition of grace. Christ who being rich became poor in order that we might become rich in him. I mean uh big question is what was he rich in prior that we're becoming rich in now? Anyways for that go to his podcast with anger. We're going to we're going to put a link in the description so you can listen to that answer. But anyways it's been great to have you brothers. Thank you so much Reese and David. Thanks for the invite. And anyways, follow us, comment, like, and uh we'll we'll be back next week with another episode. Subscribe button. Smash the subscribe button like Reese said. All right. Thank you guys. Thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to hit that like button, subscribe, and leave us a comment below. We love chatting with you guys. We've got so much more content and powerful testimonies coming your way. So follow us on our socials. And until next time, stay safe. Keep speaking about the words of this life.

Pablo: Hi, welcome to Words of This Life podcast. My name is Pablo. And here we share real and impactful Christian stories from believers who love the Lord and His word. Through these testimonies, we want to showcase the virtues of the one who's called us out of darkness into His marvelous light. Virtues that are at work in everyday people, shaping their character, guiding their actions and shining forth His life into the world. We're so happy you're here with us for this episode and let's get right into it.

Ayo: Everybody. Welcome back to the Words of This Life podcast show. My name is Ayo and I'm back with my co-host Pablo and we're here with two special guests, Jordan and Paula.

Paula: Hi, thanks for having us.

Jordan: Great to be here.

Ayo: Great to have you guys. So this episode is actually a really special one. We're going to be talking about serving others. And as you know, if you're a follower of Christ service is a big deal in the Christian life. Our Lord came to serve. He didn't come to be served, but to serve and give His life as a ransom for many. So we're just going to dive into that topic, get to know Jordan and Paula, and just have a good conversation about our Lord Jesus.

Jordan: I'm ready.

Ayo: Where should we start? Just do some introductions.

Pablo: Yeah, let's do a quick intro from each one of you. Maybe Jordan, you can start. Tell us a little bit about your background.

Jordan: Yeah. So my name is Jordan and I'm originally from Houston. I live here in Austin now, I've been here. And just a quick fun fact about me, I just had a daughter. So fresh dad. Yeah. And so, yeah, and I guess you could say I've been serving the Lord with my full time for the past three years now. Going on three years. Wow. Time flies. It feels like I just started yesterday.

Pablo: Wow.

Paula: Well, yeah, I'm Paula and I was born and raised in Puerto Rico. And then I moved to Austin for university and then I just stayed. And this is my fifth year serving the Lord in a full-time way. And it's been glorious.

Ayo: Wonderful. Yeah. Amen. So it's a big thing to say, I want to do ministry full-time. That's a huge choice in life to make. But I think before we even get to that question, we want to know a little bit about your Christian background. How did you and the Lord Jesus meet and when did that happen?

Paula: When I was 12, right, you're asking kind of like, how did I come to know the Lord and receive Him as my Lord and Savior? Yeah, I was 12. I had grown up in just going to a Catholic mass for my younger years. And then I got to go to this retreat where my uncle was a pastor there. And anyways, I heard the gospel for the first time. And within me, I already had the sensation that I was a sinner, that I just yeah, I had some experiences in my life had led me to believe that I was just not a right person. And when I heard the gospel there was just something within me that seemed so compelling and I yeah I asked the Lord for forgiveness and to come into me and it just was such a surreal experience. I just remember crying and I remember my cousin being like why are you crying? We're good people. And I was like no I need Jesus. And so that's kind of what started my journey to know the Lord. And then throughout high school I got to be kind of a chaplain for the mornings for my class and then I just would get some verses in the sermon the day before at church be writing something and then share it with my classmates. And I don't know I was just you know circumstances in my life hardships just caused me to have many more conversations with the Lord in that. I began to know that it's starting the journey to know the Lord in that way.

Jordan: Yeah, even good people need Jesus.

Pablo: Yeah, that's right.

Jordan: Yeah, so for me, I grew up in a household. I'm the youngest of five and growing up my mom was what you would call a devout Christian. She was Baptist and went to church every Sunday. My dad on the other hand, he was a believer but did not practice. And so every Sunday my mom would go to church and we would have the option to go with her or not. And my oldest brother refused because he said that he felt there was a lot of hypocrites there. And so me in the first grade decided I wasn't gonna go to church because there's a lot of hypocrites there. Even though I didn't know what a hypocrite was. But I looked up to my older brother. So one thing, though, that I knew for sure from watching my mom was that Christians read their Bibles and they pray.

Paula: Wow.

Jordan: And so just growing up, you know, I just always felt, you know, I was fine by association. Right. My mom is pretty devout, so I'm good. Yeah. And so I thought, you know, I was in good with God, I guess, because of my mom's belief. But I started to have this feeling and, you know, there was an earlier episode of this podcast Ayo you talked about Ecclesiastes 3:11 right God placing eternity in man's heart. And we have this eternity sized hole that only an eternal sized being can fill which is God. And I felt like in elementary school this eternity sized hole in my heart would get stirred up and I would just start to consider what happens after I die. Yeah what am I gonna do for eternity, right? Am I going to be with my friends? Right? Best friend. We're going to be in the same place, right? And I just remember it would just strike every now and then and it would just cause me to consider the Lord. And so fast forward, eighth grade, I met a group of Christians and I started going to a Bible study with them. And I was only really going because there was free food and it was really good. And they were really nice. I remember one of them had told me, hey, if you ever want to pray and you don't know what to pray, you can take a verse and you can pray it yourself. You could just take a verse from the Bible and pray it back to the Lord. I thought that that was neat. I didn't do it. But a few months after that, I remember I was running home from school. There was a situation going on at home. I guess to say anxious would be an understatement. I was just, I was so scared at what was going to happen once I got home. And so my school was about three miles from where I lived. I took off full sprint. And I just remember as I was running, I had the feeling I need to pray. I need Jesus, right? I don't know what to do. I don't know what's going on. I need Jesus. And I just I remember right after I had a feeling I need to pray I had the thought I don't know what to pray. And then I remembered that someone said I could pray a verse and make that my prayer. And so I opened up my Bible to the book of Matthew and I chose some random verse and I just started praying it as I'm running and about a minute into this prayer I looked down and I was standing still. And I just had an immense amount of peace just enter in. And I felt, you know, when I get home, no matter what happens, God is in control. And I also had the realization that that situation at home that's waiting on me will not change, but God is in control. And I believe that was the moment that I had a genuine, my first genuine experience with the Lord. And that I received His life through that. And ever since then, my life was ruined. In a good way, all right? In a good way. Because now my conscience, in a sense, was activated. So this started in eighth grade, so everything after that, I would just any time I did something wrong, or I said something I shouldn't have said, I just had something inside didn't agree with that. And I would just feel I feel like a sinner. I never felt like a sinner before. And so, yeah, that's a little bit of my background.

Pablo: And that's really good. I like the word he used, ruined. In a past episode, someone said they got wrecked. In a positive way, Jesus comes and wrecks your lives in the most positive way.

Ayo: Yeah.

Pablo: Wow. I guess for some people, the calling to serve God in a full time way comes with salvation or at the same moment, but not for everyone, right? Sometimes it's along the way. Sometimes it's through a person, sometimes it is. So what was it? Was it through the initial salvation or was there along the way or was there someone that God used to call you or to be kind of a role model?

Jordan: Yeah, for sure. It wasn't like I woke up one day and I said, I'm going to serve God with my full time. It was kind of like seeds were planted early on and just things of life, they just grow over time. And so from an early age, that person who told me actually that I could take a verse and pray over it, they had made the decision to serve the Lord with their full time. And actually, you know, they had worked a bit so that they would be able to support themselves as they did it. But because I had someone in my life, a believer who decided to dedicate their full time to serving the Lord and serving the church, it was just a pattern for me. I just saw someone who had such an impact on my life, who did this. And so I just always thought very highly of it, right? I thought it was a very noble thing. One of the best things that you could do, in my opinion, at a young age. And so over time, that was just my feeling towards it. And so it just begins to grow like, oh, and you know, you have concepts. It's like, oh, yeah, but I couldn't do that. I'm not the right person, right? Very brash. I would offend people, right? I can't spend time with people that might still, I'll probably turn away from the Lord. I don't know. You just have all these concepts that's good for someone else, but not for me. But over time, I started to meet other people who decided or were led by the Lord to serve Him with their full time. I started realizing, oh, actually they're pretty normal. They're not super Christians and you know, they're not perfect. And so just seeing that over time, it just, I began to then see myself in that same position. And then just through opening to the Lord and just casting everything onto Him and just being open like, Lord, if this is what You want me to do, I'll say amen. And so slowly over time, I just felt the Lord was just slowly kind of ushering me along that way until one day it just was very clear after all that time. This is where the Lord is leading me and at that point I mean, what can you do except say amen?

Paula: Yeah, well, I don't think in my experience there was one particular person I'd say that influenced me into wanting to have, you know, to serve full-time. But I think it is a series of events leading up to, you know, and just even now, you know, thinking about what I just shared about, you know, having that opportunity to be a chaplain in my high school. There was a desire in me to be in the Word and to share something to my peers, to my classmates. Yeah, I'm like, wow, I'm looking to see the seeds, right, being planted. And think even throughout college, you know, there is a desire. I think in every believer there is some type of desire to serve God in a way, right, and we have different views of that some people think you know, I'm gonna serve God my full-time. I'm gonna go to another country I'm gonna do this and I don't know the more I've been serving in a full-time way I'm realizing that is to give Him the first place in all. Yes, and so anyways, there's this hunger to be in the word and to know the Lord in the word and so yeah, I think maybe one of the things that catapulted was doing an internship with this Christian club and even though I wasn't a student anymore I was actually working anyways just being out there preaching the gospel and bringing people to see the things the truth in the word that just I don't know I guess maybe it sparked a hunger that I was just like I need to satiate this hunger and anyways yeah I got to participate in a Bible school for a while and afterwards I just felt like well if I could be all day long in the word I would just be all day long in the word. I don't have the capacity obviously to be all day long but yeah there was something about being hungry so hungry for the word and the truth and to give that what I would get from that to other people that really you know I just been enjoying a lot on Ephesians 3 the matter of stewardship and Paul talking about that and I think that's becoming more and more real to me now. It's this matter of we get in the word we spend time with the Lord and there's just something that we get from that and our natural and it's an organic reaction should also be I need to flow this out. I need to give this to somebody else and I don't know if that's fully answering your y'all's question but yeah I think it's just maybe a series of events the Lord planted a seed and I didn't realize until you know later on it just flourished to have this desire to do this in a full-time kind of way without, you know, dropping my job, actually. So...

Ayo: So, Paul was on the road to Damascus was going a certain way. He had an idea of what his life should look like, and he was driven that way. But Jesus, you know, Jesus came and wrecked that.

Pablo: And from that moment on, Paul was...

Ayo: Serving the Lord. So for you guys what did you think your life was going to be? What was your motivation in life? Where were you walking in? What was your road to Damascus?

Jordan: My road to Damascus was you know, and this is even after I was saved in eighth grade just considering my future it was pretty far from serving the Lord with my full time and serving others. It was you know, I just I grew up in a poor family and so just you know growing up we never had any money and so I just throughout all my life I was like, well, I just I just want to make money, right? Not a lot but enough. I wasn't super ambitious where I'm like, I'm going to rule the world. I just didn't want to have any money problems. And so for the majority of eighth grade to college, that was my goal. And even though I knew the Lord and I loved the Lord and I loved the believers who had helped me along the way, even the ones who decided that they would spend their full time to serve the Lord and their service, one particular, his was really with spending time with middle schoolers and high schoolers and having Bible studies with them and mentorship, things like that. And so even though I was very appreciative of that, my goal was to make money. And so that was my road to Damascus. But like I said, just because of that seed that was planted early on, I feel like, you know, it was kind of like I had laid this concrete foundation of my goal, right? Make money. And, you know, it's like, oh, even a seed can break through the concrete. I feel like that was my experience. This small seed budding with life just slowly broke through it, right? Over time just because it was being watered through fellowship with other believers, through prayer with other believers, personal prayer. It was just being watered and it began to grow. And just over time, the more I considered just pursuing money, I was just like, that won't make me happy. I grew up poor, but I didn't grow up unhappy. I was very happy. I had a great childhood. I had a lot of fun. So I was like, why do I think that money will suddenly make me happy? Right?

Pablo: That's good.

Jordan: Why not just give myself fully to the Lord? And so, you know, just over time, that feeling just began to grow and grow. And, you know, I felt like my heart was kind of directed towards one thing, but the Lord just started to slowly help me turn my heart towards Him to where I just no longer had a desire for that. Right? Even though I worked for a bit, I worked in marketing, but my heart wasn't for marketing. It wasn't for that paycheck or whatever it was. I knew it was temporary. And so I didn't have that blinding experience that Paul had. But it's great that Paul had that experience because he was on his way to persecute more Christians. But I felt like mine was just slowly over time.

Pablo: It's good.

Paula: You know, I just really appreciate that we can talk to the Lord. I don't know. I just I've just been, you know, hearing this and like, wow, there's so many conversations that go behind the scenes with the Lord that none of us know right of each other. And that it's planting even more seeds or watering the seed almost, you know, and just looking back even throughout high school, my college years and my working years, because I worked for a couple years, four or five years, as a teacher, mostly. And I loved teaching. It was very hard, but I loved it. And I had a burden for my students. And, you know, I anyways ended up preaching the gospel my last year of working there with the students. And I don't know, I think I didn't know that this would be my life, but I just wanted a life that involved something of the Lord that would be of eternal value. And I just didn't know what that looked like. And so, you know, I was on the path to just continue to teach because, you know, my grandmother was a teacher. I've always been told I should be a teacher. And I was like, well, this is my way of serving the Lord, you know, through teaching. And I think it's precious, especially for all the teachers that do that. So shout out to the teachers. But yeah, I think it just really changed when, you know, someone shared about, you know, this there's this Bible school, you know, the Bible school I went to and that, you know, just spent time in the word and, you know, in ministry and you're just eating it up. And I just couldn't believe there was such a place like that, that I could do that. And then after I finished it, then, you know, this matter of being able to serve in a full time way without having to, you know, pick up another job to, you know, maintain my life or, you know, sustain anyways. I don't know. I guess I asked the Lord or the Lord, it was just a no brainer almost like, yeah. What else for me personally, what else am I going to do? I could go back to teaching, which I love, but I've been ruined I'm wrecked I can't go back to teaching. I gotta be somewhere where I can be in the word, you know, and so maybe it looks outwardly like a kind of selfish that I started, you know went this route because I had this just hunger to just know. Anyways, yeah to be in the word and be with people and speak about God and bring them to see the word and read the word with people. I yeah, I don't so I don't know how fully that answers that's good.

Pablo: Yeah, so this is not that clear.

Jordan: Yeah, I just actually wanted to highlight something that Paula said which is you know, this matter of speaking to the Lord and that was the game changer for me early on in my Christian life when I got to college. The thing about our God is He's living. Jesus, He died on the cross. He was buried in a tomb. Praise the Lord. He didn't stay there. He resurrected and ascended. Paul says that it is Christ who lives in him. So this person lives in us is a living person living in us, right? Christ. And so we can speak to Him, right? We can have conversations with Him. And so, you know, like I said, you know, early on, I had a lot of concepts, right? And so I thought, okay, well, what would be the best thing for me to do? Or what would be the right thing for me to do? But actually we can just ask the Lord Himself, right? We can have fellowship with Him. And, you know, a lot of times you also get speaking, or we feel the Lord speaking to us through fellowship with other believers and through our personal time with Him. And I felt like the matter of serving the Lord, to serve the Lord, first of all, I feel it doesn't matter what your outward occupation is. I know you have a full-time job, right? And I feel you serve the Lord, right? That's right. And hopefully you serve the Lord in your work environment. And so, you know, but in this case, we're talking about putting a job aside and spending your full time to serve the Lord. You know, it's not like we're like, oh, well, we think we're better Christians and we'll do it. But it was just through our personal speaking with the Lord that we felt He was leading us here. Right. That was our motivation. It was the Lord speaking. And, you know, for some people, He'll lead them to a job because maybe He needs you to be a testimony there, right? That's your service to Him. That you would be a testimony in this office, right? Maybe He's trying to reach someone in that office and He needs you. And so no matter where you are, you can serve the Lord. And so in this case, the Lord led us to set aside these jobs that we had and just full time serve Him by serving others. And so yeah, but you know that comes from our personal speaking with the Lord. Yeah, and so that was big for me.

Pablo: Yeah, that's a great point. I feel like you think that you guys say that you have a choice, you know, you have a choice. I'm gonna work. I'm gonna you know, we're gonna do in my life. Yeah, actually in a sense there's no choice. Yeah, I mean this is the result of salvation is you just you lose your freedom and you just ask the Lord Lord what should I do right? But I like what Jordan said, if the Lord leads someone to work, then you better go work. But if the Lord leads someone to drop their job and serve, you better do that, right? But the point is the Lord is the head and the Lord, right? And I have so many patterns of wanting to have a job. You know, they have a job, they have a demanding job, but I believe they're there because the Lord has called them to do that. And they're a pattern to me just as much as someone who is a job dropping person. So anyways, I just feel like it's just so, you got to speak to the Lord. Is that what you're saying? You got to go to the Lord and say, Lord, what should I do? You know, can I pick up a job? Should I? No, you know? Yeah. Anyways, that's the real point. You know, speaking to the Lord.

Jordan: You know, Paul, he asked the Lord two questions when he was blinded. Who are You?

Pablo: What shall I do?

Jordan: What shall I do?

Pablo: Oh, I love you.

Jordan: Who are You? What shall I do? Yes. Right. We need to know who the Lord is. Yeah. And He's the one who will lead us. Exactly.

Pablo: Those two questions should frame our life, our walk with the Lord.

Paula: So good.

Ayo: And I love what you guys are sharing because honestly, I think I personally can relate. Over the past year, there was a good chance that I was going to go to seminary or Bible school. And I just thought that that was what I was going to do. When it seemed like I wasn't going to be able to do that, I was really disappointed. But not until recently, you know, after that moment, I was like, okay, I had to be honest with the Lord. What am I gonna do then? I was set this way. And I felt like the Lord was telling me inwardly, just stay here. This is where I want you. And then eventually, there's these 15, 16-year-old boys that need a home group. And it's in my home that they come. And even this podcast, it was just like and we got together and we're like, let's do a podcast with us. And it just, anyway, but just recently, speaking of the Lord, we just follow what He says and where He leads. And it's not just a choice, but we're living under the Lord who is our Lord. That's right. Yeah.

Pablo: Yeah. And, you know, speaking to the Lord and then another thing that we can all do, whether we have a job or not, is speak for the Lord. I like what Paula said earlier, I just want to read that verse. I think you alluded to Ephesians 3:2. So whether we have a job or we don't have a job, we can speak for the Lord. And I think we should ask the Lord, Lord, should I be speaking to this person, to that person? So for you guys, how is speaking for the Lord an enjoyment in your service? How is that part of your service? Do you love speaking for the Lord? Are you afraid of speaking for the Lord? Tell me a little bit about your experience about speaking for the Lord.

Paula: When we speak for Christ right who is the word it is you're essentially you're flowing out right? There's a flowing in that's happening right of us getting into the word us spending time with the Lord and then it's just in anything. I think it's so spontaneous the outflowing the flowing out of the words of Christ and because it is Christ. It's such an enjoyment especially when you're one-on-one or two-on-ones having a time in the word or just in a shepherding someone else it's so. You know, I've heard a lot of people use this word just sweet. There's a sweetness that comes with that when it is the Lord that is just addicting. It is addicting that's awesome in that way. And yeah, I just yeah it brings forth life within us. It brings forth peace because that's who you know, that's the Lord's presence. And yeah, I think in that regards, maybe. And it's good. Yeah. The Lord is still gaining a lot of, you know, even my gospel preaching. Yeah. Oh my goodness. That's definitely the Lord is gaining that part because it's harder for me to just, you know. Yeah. But when we do, when the Lord in us is faithful, we're faithful to open our mouth when He says to open your mouth, right? And everyone there, whether you're serving full time or not, you open your mouth and the Lord says, open your mouth afterwards. You know, whether you lose your face or whatever, it's just, oh my goodness. It is amazing. It is just wow. I can't explain the feeling, but anyways. Yeah.

Jordan: Yeah. I don't know the verse reference but I will borrow something from Hebrews 2:6 where it says someone somewhere solemnly testifies you know he who waters is also watered. And you know as Paula said you spend your personal time in reading the Bible in prayer and fellowship with the Lord and you feel like you just receive so much from that and what we do in our full-time service to the Lord, we get to spend a lot of time with people one-on-one. And just to be able to, in a sense, flow out what you feel as if the Lord flowed into you is just, I mean, it's tremendous, right? With what we do, the focus point is the Lord, right? When I worked in marketing, my focus point was these marketing campaigns and so and of course I can enjoy the Lord there. But you know what I do now it's like my job is to experience Him to have fellowship with Him to have fellowship with other believers and it's just it's you know going back to Ecclesiastes 3:11 God being an eternal being and all the things of God being eternal you feel like you're touching eternity. You sit down with someone like today, I met with a college student and we had just read some verses and we read some supplemental reading about these verses. And I just felt like we were in the Lord's presence. And the Lord was just speaking to us. And you know, it's honestly a privilege for the Lord to have led us this way, to do this. It's a privilege. Not saying it's super easy, but whenever you just have these experiences, you realize like, wow, the Lord is so gracious. He blessed me with this opportunity to do this every day. But there's also these other aspects in our serving the Lord with our full time, preaching the gospel. Yeah. Right. You know, there's the term gospel chicken. Yeah. You know, I'm, I think I'm kind of a gospel chicken, but it's just so funny. The Lord will just lead people to me and have them ask me the most bizarre questions. It kind of like an underhand pitch. They just want me to say something about the Lord. And I'm just like, I mean, I guess I have no choice. Sure. And so there's that aspect. And sometimes it's a struggle to cooperate with the Lord in that. But it's still another experience or opportunity for us to trust in the Lord and to constantly be before Him, speaking to Him and following His leading.

Ayo: There's an older brother in the church. He talks about speaking forth Christ and he calls it, when you do that, you're touching destiny. You said touching eternity, but in a sense also we're touching destiny because we were made to be filled with God and express God. And when you're doing that, you're expressing God. There's this joy the Lord was like I want this joy to be in you My joy be in you and be made full and He was talking about fruit bearing. Yeah. Yeah this anyway, but yeah, there's just so much joy. Yes, and so much a rich experience when you're just speaking about the Lord to somebody. Yeah.

Paula: Yes.

Ayo: It's addicting.

Pablo: Yeah speaking. I mean God does everything through speaking, you know, there's this older brother he passed away already but he was a pattern a big brother to me just a senior brother who when he before he passed away he was he was diagnosed with cancer but he told me one time when he was already sick Christ's main function is to speak he told me. So he was encouraging me you need to really read the Word and read the ministry because Christ's main function is to speak. God does everything by speaking. We don't speak because you can do Levitical outward things. But really people gain God by speaking. Someone has to speak the Gospel to someone, right? But instead of the feet of those who would, it's the actual Gospel, right? So anyways, I just feel like this is what we're talking about right now. It's a huge part of serving. Open your mouth when God tells us open.

Paula: Yeah, that's so good. And the thing is that something that I've been experiencing a lot more of is that when we really get into the word and the ministry yeah, and or just Christian books, whatever, you know, there's tons of different but when we something touches us or we see something that we've never seen before of Christ something just so rich you can't help but yeah speak out speak that out if you really are enjoying something or just touched by something just there's a joy that you can't keep your mouth shut. Yeah and that's what we're that's it really the way that I can outflow. I am a little bit of gospel chicken but I've been enjoying so much this week just reading anyways a lot of chapters just going reading the New Testament going over and over so many back to back and it's just there's something that bubbles inside of you that you just can't contain it. And anyway, so yeah, it's Christ is just to speak for us you can't just hold it in you got to open anyway. Yeah, it's just so yeah.

Pablo: I'm not going to close this part, but I just want to read a verse. Romans 10:14, and how shall they believe into Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without one who proclaims? Praise the Lord for those who proclaim Him. We need those. We all should be those. Whether you have a job or you don't have a full time job keeping person, you just got to speak.

Jordan: We don't have the luxury of going inside your office and speaking the gospel to all your coworkers. You have to cooperate with the Lord to do that, right?

Paula: That's right.

Jordan: I would get kicked out. It would remove me from the premises.

Ayo: Yeah. I love that verse that you brought up because in another sense with serving the Lord, you feel like you get the satisfaction that comes with satisfying His need. That verse makes me think of the Ethiopian eunuch that was reading Isaiah. Do you understand? He's like, how would I know if somebody didn't tell me, you know, somebody didn't speak to me. And anyway, I bet you guys have experienced that where it's like, you can tell inwardly the Lord is happy because you're speaking about Him to someone else. You're reaching His creation and you're giving them what they need. They need Christ.

Jordan: And you know, God desires all men to be saved this says in Timothy and come to the full knowledge. So it's like, this is His desire. And so when we cooperate, His desire is being fulfilled more and more. He can't help but be happy.

Ayo: That's awesome. I'm gonna change gears here. And I mean, we're really having fun and it's all positive. I might get a little negative here. But the Lord said that He came with the sword to cut. What is it, mother from daughter, son from father?

Pablo: Yeah, that's right.

Ayo: With saying yes to the Lord and following Him and serving Him, there can be contention with your family. And, you know, for the most part, we live for our own personal ambitions. But in another sense, we do kind of live for our family. And that's the experience for a lot of people. So can you guys just talk a little bit about that. How did your parents or your siblings or family react to you saying you want to serve the Lord? And how did the Lord get you through their response? Positive or negative? Yeah.

Jordan: I think we have different experiences. And so that's a really great question. I'll go first. So as I said, youngest of five. And overall, I don't think my family had any problem with me following the Lord this way. And, you know, being the youngest of five, how do I put this? Well, I made the responsible decisions. Out of all my siblings, according to them and my parents, I was the most responsible one. And so anytime I did make a decision, there was never really any pushback regardless of the decision. And I was known a bit as the black sheep, the odd one out. And so they just always felt, well, you know, he's gonna shock us. Whatever he does, it won't be conventional. But they did know that I was on the road to riches, my Damascus. Actually, they bought a lot of stock in me. They were hoping that I would be the one but over time, when they saw what the Lord was doing in my life and with me, I think they had really appreciated it because they benefited from it. Because, as Paula said, when you're just filled with something and you're spending time reading the Bible, you can't help but speak. And so that's what I would do. I would just speak to them. I felt the Lord was speaking to me through the Bible or something that I just really liked. I was like, man, this was good. I would share it with them. My siblings have encountered a lot of troubles. During those times, they would come to me. I felt as if it was a blessing that the Lord would lead me this way because I'm just always having fellowship with people, praying with people. Whenever they would come to me, I just felt as if the Lord, by His mercy, I would just have something for them. And so, you know, when I made this decision, or when I cooperated with the Lord and I said, amen, I'll do this, or I'll go this way, they were just like, hey, that's fine. Like, you know, they're like, doesn't sound like you're gonna make any money, but you know, I guess it's fine. And my mom, you know, being the Christian that she is, I mean, even though she wanted me to, you know, make money and not have to worry about financial struggles or anything like that, because of her relationship with the Lord, she was just, what can I say, right? And so I also got to go to a Bible school. And so, you know, when I made that decision, my whole family kind of supported me. And so I was very thankful for that. And so, yeah.

Paula: That's beautiful. Yeah, my story is a little different. You know, I am the oldest of three and I did not get a good reaction. First of all, when I decided to quit my job and just go to a Bible school, there was a lot of pushback yeah especially from my mom. So yeah, it was just like, you know, why are you quitting your job that you're so good at that you enjoy to do what? I mean you can serve the Lord in your job, which is so true. Absolutely we can serve the Lord as we're working as we're studying all these things but you know, I felt the Lord was leading me there and yeah, it was I mean, my parents, you know, they are believers and even now it's a different story. They actually, you know, we read the Bible together and we get into and we pray almost every other day together. So it's a big 180. But then they were trying to get me, they were trying to throw everything at me to not go to Bible school. And I mean, all sorts of stuff. And you know they would do this for me. They would get me this they were like, you know and it and it's just you really see it wasn't really my parents. We have to see that our warfare is not against blood and flesh. Yeah, you know and so, you know, of course they're parents and they're worried and it's family but yeah I mean there was a time period where you know I sold everything basically and I moved in with my parents for the summer just so that I can save up so I can go I was going in the fall and you know it was night and day it was constantly just speaking you know if we're not speaking Christ we're just speaking death literally it's either death or life no in between and so it's just constant speaking death and just about this about you know what I'm doing about church and all these different things and anyways and then when I finished Bible school and I decided to you know serve my job completely and not pick it up again and serve in a full-time way there was less backlash a little bit less from my mom and then it became my dad was the one you know he's like well you can leave it to other people to serve why do you have to do this other people can do it and I don't know I think I just responded I was like dad yeah other people can but when the Lord is leading, here I am, send me. I don't want to miss that opportunity. And I just trusted in the Lord. I would pray with so many people for my family and for them to have a view of what I was doing and that was really just following the Lord. Yeah, it was really sad because my entire family just thought I was gone off the rails, you know she quit her job, you know great stable income gone to do that and anyways but yeah so I think the Lord just praying a lot and then they saw a testimony and I can boast that to say that it was Christ that they kept seeing because I know who I am there was a drastic change yeah and I think that freaked my parents out they're like who is this person and so I think as time went by they just saw I was just normal and then what I was doing and then they you know they started helping with kind of the things that we do practical ways I bring the food for events that we have and then you know slowly right the almost the scales fell off like Paul and they began to see a little more like wow you know this is the Lord has called her to this there's a blessing that comes with so there's a blessing when we follow the Lord despite what other people think despite the persecution despite the you know whatever is going on our surroundings when we say amen and the Lord is the amen in us there's a blessing that comes with us and I can testify that that's exactly what happened with my family because to go from my parents telling my family that I was gone off the rails I'm doing I don't know what I got myself into to them calling when we read the Bible we pray together pray for my brothers no that is a blessing there and I think that you know that's the key right there we just need to be faithful and the Lord is a faithful one in love to follow and then He will take care truly Matthew 6:33 I hope I'm quoting it correctly seek first His kingdom.

Pablo: That's right.

Paula: All other things will be added. He is so faithful to Himself and to His people because He wants our family to be saved. He wants those around us to be saved and come to the full knowledge of the truth, like Jordan was saying. So, yeah, you know, it was a negative experience but then, you know, it's been turning around yeah.

Pablo: So yeah that's right that's a great question I think when the Lord calls us family is a big test or a big learning you know yeah how to take care you know with the Lord we have a little glimpse when He was a boy right of obeying His father and being subject to His earthly parents right so I think even I'm still learning you know when you follow the Lord you gotta be human you got to take care of your family but also follow the Lord absolutely you know so it's yeah anyway we just need to we need to talk to the Lord learn from the Lord a lot yeah.

Ayo: Yeah one thing that I liked that you guys mentioned was that when you said yes to the Lord and you were faithful, somehow that has a residual effect where the Lord is able to start getting to your family now you're praying with your family now your unsaved family members are praying to receive the Lord we never really understand the residual effect or the domino effect that can happen when you personally say yes to the Lord it's like He has a way to move in your life and even in the life of other people.

Pablo: That's right oh that's so true a whole family gets blessed when one person decides to follow the Lord I've seen that again and again one daughter decides to follow the Lord go to Bible school for some years or give you know and I begin to see the whole family begins to be just sanctified blessed everyone begins to turn to God you know because there is that domino effect you know there's just I don't know one person one person in the household can save a household by their giving themselves to God it's not a small thing.

Ayo: And when you finally make the decision yes Lord I'll do it I'll serve You I'll follow You this way there can be all these emotions of uncertainty and sometimes guilt and I think you even mentioned in a marketing email yeah but was there a moment where you felt like the Lord was just confirming to you this is what you're supposed to be doing this is where I have you and it just solidified your following of Him.

Jordan: Paula mentioned the Matthew 6 verse seek first His kingdom and then also you know Hebrews 12 looking away unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith and you know obviously regardless of what you do in life right humanly speaking there's going to be problems right there's going to be problems it's just you know humanity has fallen right and so there's just always going to be some sort of problem right and so why not just take the route of following the Lord right there's going to be problems but if you go any other route there's still going to be problems and so you know going this way obviously a big thing is finances right and so money makes the world go round right as they say and so that's always a consideration both before and during and so I just I do my best to practice looking away unto Jesus right I was telling someone earlier today if you just if you look at that bank account you might be discouraged you might you might second guess or whatever it may be right you you might look at your situations like oh well how am I going to you know how am I going to meet this need or meet that need or whatever it may be it might not be finance it might be something else right that serving the Lord with your full-time might conflict with but just look away right and that's not to neglect it but that's you don't want your heart to be occupied with that because once your heart's occupied with that well then yeah then you're gonna turn away from the Lord and you're gonna try to fix it yourself yeah you know and so I like you said with the email that I had mentioned it's related to a story with Steve Jobs and his recruitment of John Sculley from Pepsi and you know he walks into his office and he says you know do you want to make sugar water for the rest of your life or do you want to change the world and that's how he recruited him to come to Apple and so you know as I had mentioned I worked in marketing for a bit and I worked for a company that sold tactical gear and a big part of what I did was I created marketing campaigns and mainly through email and so one day not too long ago probably a few months ago I had opened up one of my emails and it was from that company earlier that week I was just having these thoughts okay should I go back and get a job I just had a child I have a child on the way at the time and I'm just considering all these things having a baby is not cheap even with insurance it is not cheap and then you know having the baby with you is not cheap and so it was just all these considerations I was like should I go back and get a job like what am I doing and I remember I opened up that email and I felt the Lord saying to me He's like do you want to sell tactical gear for the rest of your life is that what you want to do and I was just like no I don't and I felt as if that was the Lord just kind of in His wisdom right showing me that there's no better way than to follow Him and but you know because we're just we're human and we get in these situations and we become anxious we just have to be I don't want to say diligent but because then it seems like a duty but it's a privilege to spend time with the Lord every day that's right right to just speak to Him to know Him yeah right because then it reorients us or recalibrates us right what's our destiny or you know we have what 70-something years on this earth if we're lucky even better if the Lord returns sooner but you know okay what's a little suffering during that time and so just being someone who spends time with the Lord every day that kind of just rekindles that love for the Lord and remember it's the Lord who led me to do this right and so as my love is rekindled for Him then whatever He says amen and if He says you will continue to serve with your full time amen if He says go back and sell tactical gear amen right but my heart is not for anything else other than the Lord.

Pablo: That's right wow wow yeah that's great and that's not easy for your heart to not be for anything yeah anything our heart can rely on can easily become a replacement for the Lord yeah just this morning I was thinking about you know the old testament one of the first I guess you know full-time ser you know Moses you know I was thinking about how he got called you know and I was just reading in Exodus 4 when he gets told by God to throw that staff to the ground you know and then becomes a snake he recoils you know that snake was a hiding place for something negative which was a snake so anyways sometimes in my service life I think like Lord what is becoming something I rely on that I'm relying on too heavily you know that's a hiding place that eventually gets my heart away from exactly I think in serving a job or money you know not just even for full time for anybody yeah exactly when you have a job eventually something becomes something that you rely on too much and then it's something that replaces the Lord right so we constantly have to talk to the Lord it's like what you're saying yeah Lord like what in my life Lord my house my job my family my bank account what is becoming something that's getting my heart to turn away from You yeah so anyways we just need to talk to the Lord.

Paula: Yeah I think for me I don't think I've had one specific moment where it's like you know Lord is like yes you are this is what you're supposed to be doing but think with any everything is do we have the Lord's presence and not only that I like I heard a long time ago someone say do we have the Lord's smile that's the one when we're talking to the Lord yeah is He smiling at us is He do we can we see His smile and obviously you know we're not talking about the physical but within us there's just a you know there's a smile you know can't fully explain it but I think that's maybe how I've been kind of seeing where I'm at and what I'm doing is what the Lord you know has asked and even just looking at what He's done with my family that's you know the Lord doesn't promise us that He's going to give us I mean all the things we can imagine that we want you know and sometimes we have a hopeful Lord I'm going to serve you know I'm going to quit my job I'm going to serve You and I know You're going to give me this this this and that I mean we don't know what the Lord will do and so I think that's been something the Lord has been causing my only hope to be Himself and that's something that comes through suffering too and I know we're so scared of that word of suffering but through my now five years serving in a full time way I think maybe even those matters of you know kind of situations that I've been in and sufferings and it's still an indicator that I feel that you know I'm in the right path and you know and to clarify with you know with the whole situation with my family you know when we decide to follow the Lord in a certain way right we're not just relying on our own understanding of what following the Lord because we may feel you know that we want to serve full-time or we want to take a job but you know I just appreciate that I have the body of Christ right the members my church community my church fam supporting and praying with me lead you know and that just word it's just kind of helping me you know be where I need to be and so I think yeah the blessing that the Lord has given to my family that's I just yeah I sense the Lord's smile and His presence and yeah and the enjoyment there's joy yeah there's joy that's that indicator there has to be joy because the Christian life is full of joy yeah in the midst of everything and so I have joy in my serving in this full-time kind of way so nothing concrete of yet of like this is where you need to be you know but you just guess you just know yeah wow.

Pablo: I want to go to another route um so I know this episode is called serving others yeah but I want to ask you about serving with others okay because I feel like this is a big thing in serving once yeah and we just see the pattern in the Bible you know the Lord in the Gospel sending the disciples by two in the Acts you know it's always Peter and John you know it's always Paul and whatever co-worker you know it's Silas or Barnabas or Timothy there's something about serving God that has to be in coordination with others you know I don't know if coordination is a big word people use that word but you need to learn to be with others and be checked and not go unchecked you know so what's your experience of this of serving alongside others and learning to be with others not easy right yeah but but it's necessary for a Christian life you know absolutely what's your experience there.

Paula: Well you got it oh my goodness um yeah it is an experience for sure but you know we are part of the body of Christ and we are members one of another and yeah there's no such thing as you doing ministry on your own.

Pablo: Yeah.

Paula: Sorry yeah if someone said that that's possible they straight-up lying because that is not true yeah there's no way there's no way for you to even sustain serving in a full time way in ministry on your own we are sheep made to flock together.

Pablo: That's right.

Paula: And I've had so much experience with this and even just this past five years good and bad a lot of bad on my end because you know it's we're so different Jordan I we come from different backgrounds I come from a whole I didn't even was born into here in Texas anyways um and then how do you get all these people that have given their lives to serve in a full-time way to be one essentially because the Lord can only bless something that there is they're one yeah you know that's right exactly so you see a lot of people trying to serve the Lord and you know but if there's so much discord how can that be blessed and so I think for me one of the things has been is it's so easy for me to point well that person she just cannot what's her deal or what why is she doing it this way and you know always pointing the finger and the Lord's like why are you doing it this way why can't you just let it go and do it how she's doing it and I think that's such a contrary to the world you know the world is like my way or the highway I know what I'm doing assert yourself be the boss whatever whatever but I'm really thankful honestly that this is the life that we live in the Christian life is one of not viewing yourself more highly than the other and that doesn't come with you trying to be that so I think that's been my experience even in my even practically serving I think that you know I need to be I need to do this or do that or I think my way is better and anyway it comes with time and again I don't want to use the word sufferings of you know.

Pablo: Sure.

Paula: And oh there's so much to that that could be its own podcast serving with others because there's a lot there but I just want to say that we you know we're living this Christian life the more and more we're here with the Lord the more we have to realize that this is a body life this is a life of with one another pursuing with one another serving with one another um and yeah Jordan go for it.

Jordan: Yeah oh yeah serving alongside others you know like I said you know we're human right Paul and Barnabas they had their dispute uh it's just you know the Christian life right what makes someone a Christian is that they have Christ inside of them right they have Christ living in them and their Christian life is us living out Christ and expressing Christ and if you think that you are living Christ give it the group of Christians and try to make a decision you'll realize right yeah you start to realize why did he pick green pillows it should've been blue it should have been blue pillows you start to realize you have all these opinions in yourself you know the best way to do it you have to carry out all these things right whether it be a Bible study a gospel effort on the campus or somewhere in the city and you just have all of these opinions of the best way to do it even you might have experience I know that this works and then Ayo speaks up and he says well actually we should go at this time and that's an opportunity for you to learn to turn to the Lord right and let Him be the head right let Him be the one living through you right you take that opinion of yours and you just put it on the cross right and you just let Christ be expressed and it's a learning right it's a learning I serve alongside about 30 people.

Pablo: That's a lot of opinions.

Jordan: That is that is right and sometimes I don't even voice my opinion but it's still there right and it's still occupying so much space and so I have to actively turn and look away unto Jesus right um and so it and you know I if I if I didn't take this way of serving full time I probably me personally I wouldn't get this experience because once I you know had a differing opinion I would just leave but because I do this in my full time I can't just leave I got to pray with these people got to fellowship with them and so it's tough but it's a blessing it's a blessing.

Pablo: Yeah it unlocks all the blessings.

Jordan: It unlocks all the blessings.

Pablo: You can really just swallow your opinion and be one with your brother or you realize that's the real blessing that's my experience at least.

Ayo: So you know in a sense following the Lord is like packing and walking on a journey and to go on a journey you need fuel and both of you guys kind of spoke about having a personal time with the Lord and how that sustains you can you talk a little bit about that and what happens when that time slips away.

Paula: That's a great question there is no serving if you don't have time with the Lord there is no serving if you aren't in the Word there just isn't because it's just you trying to do something out of yourself and for me personally that's probably one of the things that has kept me still serving in a full-time way is my times with the Lord my times in the Word I think I've said this before there is no me having time in the Word there is Paula not serving not doing nothing there's no way it's just I just be literally killing people left and right sorry not physically obviously but I mean with just my words my personality you know my opinions and so it is such a joy to serve full time because I have the time to be in the word as much as I am and I am so thankful I am so thankful to the Lord and feel like it's such a privilege that I can have the time that I do to be in the word to be just brought into this romance with the Lord literally you know and so yeah I need to spend time in the Lord in the morning wake up and first thing should be me being with the one that I love my beloved right and then being in the word being just getting soaked in it and that just from that again like I shared earlier just you bubble up you speak forth and even practically serving even if you're cooking for people if you're washing dishes if you're mopping the floor there is a spontaneous joy and people see that and not that we would be anything but it would be a testimony that it is Christ that's being lived out not us because we know how grumpy we are you know it's like 10:30 p.m. and you're dead tired and you got to still mop the kitchen you know and but there's joy when we're you know we turn to the Lord and we're again conversing with Him yeah being in the word spending time with Him it's just there is no serving really if there is none of that that's right.

Jordan: Yeah I say amen to what Paula said you know there really is no serving or no reality to it in a sense right if you don't spend time with the Lord personally to be infused with His speaking and just receive His who He is and be in His presence and uh you know I was thinking about this this is take it with a grain of salt this is an analogy it might be a little silly but I've recently had to you know call customer support for my phone plans right and I realized uh a lot of them were not very helpful and they just weren't I guess you could say saturated with T-Mobile but there was one person that I spoke to and they absolutely loved T-Mobile they loved T-Mobile what they consumed was T-Mobile and they were so helpful and I was leaving T-Mobile the company but I just remember I was like wow maybe I should stay with T-Mobile right because just it seems if in their personal time maybe they were just reading about T-Mobile every day right and so okay so I say that because you know in serving the Lord when you come to people what you're bringing them is the Lord yes right and so if you don't have that then someone's gonna have that experience like you know am I really a believer after speaking to me but if I'm soaked and saturated with the Bible with these words and the Lord speaking when I come to people that's what they receive and so I can't serve unless I do that and even not only that that's our fuel we have to eat and we don't just consume stuff physically we also consume stuff spiritually and so if I'm not eating then there's no there's no strength it's in the kings with Elijah he was in the wilderness and he was tired and even wanted to die the Lord said rise up and eat for the journey is too great so it's like we need to eat something so that we have the power and the ability to do anything and in this realm what we're doing is we're just cooperating with the Lord well we need to eat spiritually speaking and so whenever you know I keep talking about this about my child that was just born right you don't get a lot of sleep right you're used to a schedule waking up every day at this time spending this much time to read the word and pray and have fellowship with the Lord well now you're up at 3 a.m. 4 a.m. you don't go to sleep till 9 a.m. it's hard to find that time but you realize the more you miss that time it's like wow not only am I struggling humanly spiritually speaking I just feel so tired and dead and then it makes you desperate yeah to get that time yes right yeah so when you're rocking that baby at 2 a.m. you just like well maybe yeah I'll open up the Bible and read something or you know whatever may be and yeah you know you start to realize the more you serve the Lord you need this right and without this I can't serve.

Paula: Yeah I just want to jump super really quick we are that's right what Jordan was saying when we are supplying ourselves in the Word and spending time with the Lord what we bring to people is Christ because if we don't then all we're bringing is Jordan not sleeping at all and that's what we're giving people and that's not going to help anyone no I'm sorry I mean I say myself right it just doesn't it's not going to help someone grow in their spiritual life which is really what people need and so if we really are supplying ourselves what we're bringing is Christ Christ as food Christ as whatever that person needs to meet the need right that's a real building up of the church right and I hope I'm quoting it right 1 Corinthians 14 each one has we speak forth to build up one another and if all we're bringing is our tired old self with our opinions it doesn't help anyone it doesn't help you it doesn't help the person you're shepherding the person that you're kind of mentoring so it's absolutely crucial.

Pablo: As you all were speaking maybe I'll just read this verse and maybe you can I think we need to end soon because you can close it out but about you know having something from the Lord for others this is Isaiah 50 the Lord has given me the tongue of the instructed that I should know how to sustain the weary with a word He awakens me morning by morning even with my baby crying He awakens my ear to hear as an instructed one so anyways if we're not hearing His words yeah what do we have yeah exactly give our ears to the Lord but anyways.

Ayo: Yeah so when we we like to end our episodes with a series of questions oh just first thing that comes to mind yeah you could say one thing to your younger self what would it be.

Paula: Oh my goodness wow no pressure.

Jordan: Yeah I would just tell my younger self just love Him yeah all right just give yourself to the Lord yeah don't worry about it yeah just give yourself to Him and keep following Him.

Paula: Yeah that's right that's exactly I would say don't worry trust in Him love Him just spend time with Him that's it yeah.

Ayo: Okay I'm now I'm going to change the audience you were speaking to younger self mm-hmm but if you can look into that camera what is one thing you want to say to the viewer.

Paula: Okay looking straight at you um I would say to love Him yeah to just spend time with the Lord yeah remember that the Lord is a person and He wants to hear everything you have to say and all your desires all your longings all your problems even you know questions the Lord is a person and He just wants to hear and it's everything can come from our conversations with the Lord so do not be discouraged just keep talking to the Lord.

Jordan: Yeah I was honestly going to say very similar the same thing but say it again thanks Jordan to Him right um you can try to guess what the Lord wants you to do or you can look at others or other Christians and think you know what they're doing is what you should be doing but ultimately the Lord just wants you to speak to Him He wants to have those conversations with you He wants you to turn to Him and the Lord He is so wise and He has a perfect plan and He just wants you to follow Him and it might look different from the other person or the person next to you or how you think it should look just follow Him and speak to Him.

Ayo: Do you think we have time for one more.

Pablo: But the short one yeah go for it.

Ayo: Briefly okay favorite verse and why oh my goodness.

Paula: Okay I'm gonna give it to you okay the first one is Ephesians 3:17 it speaks about Christ that Christ may make His home in our hearts through faith you being rooted and grounded in love anyways because that's what the Lord is doing in us today above everything else above bringing us here bring us there He wants to make home in our hearts and then the second one actually I cannot remember the first reference so if anyone knows it here please feel free but it's very random it's um the kingdom of the heavens is sought by violent um violent men seek to seize it um and so I know it's kind of weird um but it's obviously not physical violence here but it's just we need to have the boldness to um pursue to lay hold of it there's an opportunity to something about the Lord we just go for it with all boldness you know not to be afraid you seek it out sought by violence the kingdom of the heavens and so that's been something I've always yeah it's been always on my heart in everything and just having the yeah that's great.

Pablo: What is interesting for the listeners that's Matthew 11:12 11:12 11:12 I cannot forget that.

Jordan: Um I guess there's quite a few verses that are just related to this but just recently I've been more so experiencing in my limitation right all that I can really do is just you know call on the Lord's name right Romans 10:12 right there's no distinction between Jew and Greek for the same Lord is Lord of all and rich to all who call upon Him right and so just whenever we you know say Lord Jesus right there's and for me it's like there's this desperation to I need Him right but we receive something every single time and if you look throughout the Bible there's a pattern amongst believers that that's how Paul found out who the Christians were they were calling on the Lord's name and so I've just been really enjoying that just call on the Lord Jesus right my hands aren't free I'm holding the baby just Lord Jesus this baby Lord Lord Jesus.

Pablo: So genuine and sweet from the heart that's awesome wow I'm so encouraged that's great thank you all thank you for your time your testimony is precious and follow us comment your feedback is always good and we'll see you next time like and subscribe that's right.

Jordan: I'll just say it was a pleasure to speak the words of this life.

Pablo: There you go.

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